Episode 1873 – Brigham Buhler – The Joe Rogan Experience Video

The Truth about Big Pharma

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Episode 1873 – Brigham Buhler – The Joe Rogan Experience Video


You can also watch it here:

https://jre123.com/video/episode-1873-brigham-buhler-the-joe-rogan-experience-video/

This video will make your jaw drop. Brigham Buhler explains as an insider how Big Pharma works.
All the things that we are seeing and experiencing right now are explained in this video.
It’s worth your time!

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Transcript Episode 1873 – Brigham Buhler – The Joe Rogan Experience Video

0:03

all day

0:09

can I see you brother good to be here listen I first want to thank you because over the last year and a half you have

0:15

and your company ways to well has [ __ ] sorted me out multiple times all these little nagging injuries that it

0:22

would have set me back a long time and as you know I’ve been uh [ __ ] waving

0:28

the flag for stem cells for quite a while since I had Neil Reardon on and since I’ve had my own stem cell

0:33

therapies and so how did you get involved in this the whole Stem Cell World

0:39

um so I kind of have to go back to the beginnings uh I I was a drug rep right

0:45

out of college uh and did that job for three years and then I jumped into that

0:50

industry got some [ __ ] fascinating stories about oh yeah it was crazy it’s so Illuminating when you were telling me

0:56

like the just if you could get into that a little bit I’d love to just yeah it’d be easier to get into that and tell you

1:01

how we got here because then the reason we’re doing what we’re doing makes a lot more sense okay so uh right out of

1:08

college I I uh I was actually interning at Hewlett Packard and I thought I was going to go into like work for a

1:15

computer company uh and so I was a business major in college I took the sales class and for shits and giggles I

1:22

like went and interviewed with Eli Lilly but I wasn’t supposed to graduate for like a year and some change

1:29

um and they offered me a [ __ ] job and so I literally had to graduate college

1:34

in two and a half years to be able to get this job with Eli Lilly uh and it was the like a dream job so you had to

1:41

have a degree you have to have a degree so what did you do just [ __ ] crazy I took 24 hours in summer school I got a

1:47

letter from the D or two the letters from four professors to the dean uh asking if I could take extra hours every

1:55

semester and I worked a full-time jobs so I was interning it to a Packard then taking all these night classes but I I’m

2:01

like this is a chance of a lifetime I’m gonna come right out of school make more money than I’ve ever thought I’d make in

2:07

my life have a company car and expense account and it was the Wild West like I

2:12

didn’t even know what drug I was launching they just told me we have a blockbuster drug coming There’s an

2:19

opportunity but you’ve got to be graduated and ready by this date so I don’t remember the exact dates but I

2:24

took 24 hours in summer school was the hardest part uh one of the professors had me like write the case studies for

2:31

the next semester students and they just kind of gave me uh unique ways to get my

2:38

credits if that makes sense at all so I could get out quick and that all transpired because I had a meeting with

2:43

the dean and I said hey I understand why you have these rules and limitations you’re limiting Me by not allowing me to

2:49

take a shot at this I have a 399 GPA let me take a shot at this I can get out of this [ __ ] quick and go get a job and

2:56

make money so they let me so what was it like being a drug rep and what did you

3:03

think it was going to be like versus what was it actually like yeah I didn’t I didn’t really have a means of

3:08

comparison in because I was right out of school so I was young and naive so you’re going into blind and I start and

3:16

they give me a 17 000 month expense account whoa a company car and the drug

3:22

I got to launch was Cialis now when he’s which is a 36-hour Viagra So when you

3:28

say uh expense account like does that mean to take people out whining and

3:33

dining started and it already existed but it wasn’t as strict and so I can’t really

3:40

speak to what they do today all I can tell you is what they did when I was there which at this point was 20 years

3:45

ago you know I’m 42 I was 21 so yeah almost 20 years ago uh yeah they gave me

3:52

a 17 000 and it’s use it or lose it so if I didn’t use the expense account I would get in trouble like my my manager

3:59

would say what are you doing why aren’t you doing dinners what like you’ve got to go use this budget or we’ll lose it

4:04

and I was in Waco Texas it’s not like I was in LA I’m in Waco Texas uh slinging dick pills

4:12

right out of school it was ridiculous and uh but it was fun it honestly and that’s where the when I got into it at

4:19

first it was so uh surreal because I was like this is awesome I’m there they’re

4:25

gonna pay me this much money and all I got to do is go talk to doctors about this new drug that they all want to talk

4:32

about so you walk in and when you have a drug like Cialis I would walk in and one

4:37

of the things they would say is drug companies only hire hot chicks they’re not going to hire a guy they had transitioned from hiring pharmacists in

4:45

very clinical individuals to a pivot and the industry had moved to hiring uh

4:50

good-looking young people who will go out and hustle more of like sales type people who have no clinical background

4:57

but when you go the training is rigorous like I went off for six weeks to Indiana uh and they had you know doctors coming

5:04

in and educating us and had to learn about all these different studies and trials and different things that had

5:09

gone on it was a weird and you carry multiple drugs so my primary drug was Cialis the Viagra competitor that was

5:17

fun because you’re like a rock star it like in you walk into a clinic and there’s a you know the toe fungus girl

5:23

sitting there who has been waiting for three hours and the doctor’s like bring home come on come on back the money’s in

5:29

dick pills yeah it was fun and so why were they hiring hiring primarily hot

5:35

women um I think what happened is as Healthcare well this is part of this

5:41

story I want to get into too in the early days if you look at medicine and what it used to be a doctor knew their

5:47

patients they would go to their houses they’d put their all their stuff in a little leather bag and they knew the

5:53

kids and they knew the wife and they knew everybody when we pivoted to this insurance-based

5:59

model they at first started having pharmacists call on doctors and educate the doctor

6:05

on the unique pharmacogenetics of this molecule and what it can do in the body and it was super scientific

6:12

that changed at some point and it’s probably because Physicians got to a

6:18

point where a primary care in America has seven minutes to spend with a patient on average seven minutes seven

6:23

minutes that’s it that’s all you get and they’re overworked underpaid we’re under we’re on a massive shortage I don’t know

6:29

if you know this they’re expecting a 40 percent shortage in the next decade we don’t have enough providers we’re going

6:36

to have 150 000 less Primary Care Providers and there’s already three four month wait lists to get in with primary

6:42

care at a lot of States well this is causing the shortage they don’t want to do the job anymore I mean in a recent

6:48

interview where I think it was the American Journal of Medicine interviewed clinicians that are primary cares and 35

6:54

percent of them said they’re looking to retire or transition jobs in the next few years

6:59

no their job is a beat down it’s a beat I watched it you literally get paid so

7:06

as soon as insurance took over and we moved to an insurance model these doctors get paid animal reimbursement

7:13

and so they have seven minutes to get you in and out of there to get to the next patient so they can see enough

7:18

patients to pay their staff to pay for their overhead all these things that being a clinician’s not what it was in

7:25

like the 80s uh now it’s just a Beatdown of a job and so I think that Pharma made

7:31

a pivot because they realized this guy’s not gonna it’s like you you’re busy as [ __ ] you’re not going to sit down like

7:37

during your lunch break and have a pharmacist bore you to death with pie charts you’re just not but if you can

7:43

send somebody in who’s attractive charismatic and this girl can just get one or two plugs in or this guy can get

7:50

one or two plugs in that move the needle a little bit that was the goal and it

7:55

becomes a relationship deal it really does like that was one of the things they told me when I started you will

8:01

become best friends with the most important practitioners in this region that’s the only way you you’ll sustain

8:08

your job it’s the only way you’ll be successful and so I have had a call list and I had a list of the doctors what

8:15

they wrote in the previous week I knew every prescription that was coming out of their practice how many of how many

8:21

viagras they wrote and then obviously if you’re a smart business guy you you plan your schedule around

8:27

where the big fish you know I go fish where the big fish are wow and so you go and sometimes it’s hard and sometimes

8:33

it’s easy like if if I just tried to always be genuine and honest with people and uh and tell them the pros the cons

8:40

and just get to know them because if you can build trust then when we launch another drug or when something else

8:46

comes out if you’re the guy who always steered them straight they use you and they they come to you for hey what’s

8:52

going on with this or hey what’s going on with that but it’s so weird that something like medicine which is

8:58

something that you would in the best case scenario you would only want to

9:04

provide people that actually need it so there wouldn’t be any incentive to sort

9:10

of coerce someone or to be charismatic like that wouldn’t even yeah come into

9:16

play but it seems like that was a big part of this job it’s a huge part and so

9:21

what what would happen is and even today this is a constant struggle um my study came out of Harvard

9:28

and it said within 18 months the new forecast is 18 to 24 months after med school most of what you learned is

9:35

Antiquated that’s how fast things are evolving so for these clinicians right I got to see a patient every seven minutes

9:42

I’m literally working my ass off doing my best to navigate the broken Insurance model where if I submit to get like so

9:50

many patients say to me uh well my doctor pulls all my blood work or I did

9:56

a physical or a checkup a primary Care’s physical is still the same physical they were doing in 1925.

10:03

they knock on a knee test your reflexes they look in your ear look in your eyes look in your nose look down your throat

10:10

and check your pulse and your heart rate and they run a minimal panel they’re not doing a deep dive because one they don’t

10:17

have the time to do a deep dive and two if they did the insurance is going to hammer their asses so they they are very

10:24

scared to push back on big insurance and big Insurance controls a lot of what happens

10:30

nowadays why would the insurance freak out on them um

10:35

we’ll layer through all of this but what what the the general gist is the big five insurance companies essentially

10:42

control all of Health Care Now a hundred percent front to back every drug that you get prescribed every drug that’s on

10:48

formulary reimbursements what a physician gets reimbursed or paid they will send back

10:55

to and a lot of it’s an obstructionist mindset so the example I can give you is if we deny the blood work you know and

11:02

make it so much of a pain in the ass for the doctor to pull comprehensive blood panels then the doctors will stop

11:08

pulling comprehensive blood panels and we the insurance company save money right because you are beholden to your

11:15

shareholders every quarter you’ve got to produce for Wall Street every quarter it’s all about quarterly earnings if I

11:21

can the whole system set up that way now that’s the problem like whether it’s insurance big Pharma big medical the

11:28

pressure is so high to hit those quarterly earnings and produce for Wall

11:34

Street it is not about patience it is not about patient outcomes it is not about helping people that’s what it used

11:41

to be and at some point the system lost track of that I I don’t know when

11:46

exactly but even when even in the last 20 years I’ve seen it change a ton

11:52

you know when I was in it back then avamed hadn’t really gotten strict so you could still whine and dine doctors

11:59

uh a bunch of different when you say strict what do you mean so they released and a lot of people think this was the

12:04

government there is no gov the government’s not really regulating a lot of uh the whining and dining and stuff

12:09

that big Pharma does big Pharma went and lobbied and said hey hold on don’t don’t restrict us we’ll restrict ourselves let

12:17

us draft the guidelines for all the other big pharmaceutical companies and we as a organ as a group of Powerhouse

12:25

pharmaceutical industry will regulate ourselves in what we do with doctors and

12:31

uh because so much [ __ ] was getting exposed yeah self-regulate that’s hilarious and

12:38

that’s that’s kind of the the direction it went so when I was there as a drug rep and and this was you know again 20

12:44

years ago it was I had a call pattern I needed to call on 10 Physicians a day I

12:49

needed to prioritize those Physicians based off their volumes and what they’re producing and then I would get analytics

12:54

the next week did my lunch work did my dinner work did my meeting work um and it was it was rare in primary

13:02

care where doctors would say anything like well I’m not using your product because you don’t pay me or that didn’t

13:08

really happen to me ever um I did have doctors say I’ve got a great relationship with the Pfizer rep

13:14

I’m not going to use your [ __ ] the Pfizer rep’s been my rep for 10 years and they’re my buddy I don’t care if your product’s better I’m not using it

13:21

and so that’s a challenge because in one hand I get that and I appreciate that they have loyalty to their sales rep but

13:28

in the other hand if it was my dad or my mom on the other end of that treatment protocol I would want the best treatment

13:34

possible to optimize their opportunity at you know getting good results yeah

13:41

because I didn’t just sell uh you have multiple products so my primary product was Cialis my bonus was based off Cialis

13:48

uh I finished like president’s Council they I mean I’m a [ __ ] kid dude I finished president’s Council

13:55

like you’re in the top five percent or whatever of the sales force so they flew

14:00

me to some like crazy extravagant hotel in Phoenix and Britney Spears was hanging out at the pool and it was like

14:06

I’m like this is insane this is amazing it was it was great and one of the

14:12

misnomers though is people think in their head that reps are bad or have bad intentions like an example I can give

14:18

you is Cialis was fun right that’s an easy one really easy it was fun doctors loved

14:23

talking about it it was a bunch of jokes and Men loved it once they took it it sold itself it’s a safe drug

14:31

it’s used today and an array of different things off label uh for performance enhancement Beyond sexual

14:37

performance enhancement it’s a vasodilator and so that was great but I also sold a Vista which was an

14:44

osteoporosis drug and it was that was an uphill battle because nobody wanted to [ __ ] talk about it this time so then

14:50

I was the rep waiting in the lobby forever uh trying to get with that doctor to educate them on the you know

14:56

why our product is supposedly the best um and I didn’t have a heartburn about

15:02

what I was doing until I got relocated to Houston and they changed my portfolio

15:07

so I was doing really well and they said hey we want you in a bigger market and so they moved me to Houston Texas and

15:13

then changed my entire portfolio of drugs I was carrying to Prozac and

15:18

symbol uh in basically mental health antidepressant type medications now when

15:24

you do something like that do they give you a course on how to handle these things or do they educate you in it and

15:31

what’s what’s involved in that you go off um so there’s learning modules you train online you have to take tests that

15:38

are timed and then you go off to like school at the corporate office where

15:45

you’re literally there I think it was like four to six weeks like doctors presenting every day you’re taking notes

15:51

and then you’ve got to take tests to show that you’ve downloaded all the data points in your head and that you can

15:56

talk about a vertebral fracture and what are their occurrences and it’s a lot of

16:02

Statistics a lot of studies a lot of data but one of the things I remember my

16:08

boss always saying is there’s Liars there’s damn liars and then there’s statistics like these numbers they it’s

16:15

all now you present them and what they look like you know it’s it’s so hard like an example I can give is we would

16:21

promote this drug Avista and it didn’t increase bone mineral density astronomically uh in women as compared

16:28

to some of the other products on the market and but the fracture rates were

16:33

equivalent so the measure the way they would measure was how much their bone mineral density improved or ceased to

16:40

decline um this drug was it based off that an inferior product to what else was out

16:45

there but based off the results of the study which as you know could be an anomaly the women didn’t fracture

16:53

disproportionately more than they would have with these other drugs that I competed against does that make sense so we would say Doc it’s because it’s not

17:00

about the quantity of bone it’s about the quality of bone is that [ __ ] I

17:05

don’t know I mean that’s what they taught us and they would have like thought leaders the other thing they did the only thing that I saw in Pharma

17:12

personally that was shady is they would they would do these courses on never off

17:18

label promote don’t talk about this don’t talk about that and you would sign all these documents saying I’m not going

17:24

to talk about this yeah definitely and then a week later have us come listen to a thought leader in the field off label

17:30

promoting all the [ __ ] they told us not to talk about explain off-label promotions so uh let me think of an

17:36

example uh an example would be Zyprexa and they got exposed for this on Zyprexa Zyprexa was indicated essentially for

17:43

let me I’ll do it a better one if you look at Oxycontin how did Oxycontin take

17:48

over the marketplace it’s because what they did is they got the Reps to go out

17:54

and begin to recommend oxy so originally oxy was meant for people who were like terminally ill with cancer and were in

18:01

severe pain or somebody who’s on the upper echelon of the pain threshold and

18:06

the goal of a company and a rep is to grow the market and to hit the number

18:11

and so when you you go out it’s like how do you grow the market well we’re going to grow the patient demographic we’re

18:16

going to have to grow we’re getting we need the doctors to write more of this so what they did with Oxycontin was they went out and started it got to a point

18:23

where they were literally promoting it for people with migraines uh and they were put pumping these pain pills into

18:30

all these practices was this before or after it had been proven that it was highly addictive

18:36

um they knew it was highly addictive based off the study so I know you and I have talked about dope stick but I mean all the story on this family is

18:44

absolutely insane so the family that owns uh Oxycontin is one of the richest

18:50

families in the country they’re up there with the Rockefellers and the Vanderbilts they made all of their wealth in the 1960s by creating the

18:58

volume pandemic they launched Valium into the marketplace told people that it

19:04

was non-addictive non-abusive grew the market they were writing Valiums for

19:10

headaches Valiums for knees shoulder elbow pain and it created they went

19:15

under governmental investigation the government ended up investigating the family in the 60s and then jump forward

19:23

they they get off they buy their way out of that jump forward and this is another thing we’ll talk

19:29

there’s so many data points uh their patent on hydrocodone was expiring

19:35

so big Pharma does this a lot and I’ll get into this like they they say we innovate but it costs 10 times we make

19:42

tenfold on one drug because we innovate and so many go by the wayside they don’t innovate they re-engineer and reapply

19:50

and like Zyprexa uh got combined with symbiaks to EXT Two

19:56

drugs that were already on the market to extend the patent right so the goal is to play this shell game where you when

20:03

your patent’s close to expiring you have to reapply and extend the patent via a

20:09

new indication or some sort of new combination of a couple of different products and so hydrocodone was expiring

20:15

the hydrocodone oxy like long delivery system was it or uh the cotton system

20:22

was expiring so what they did is they looked at their revenues and they’re like we’re [ __ ] like wait we can’t we

20:27

won’t hit our numbers we can’t continue these growth trajectories unless we get a new patent on a new pain med so they

20:33

went out and they said what else is out there that we could put into our patented delivery system and the answer

20:40

was oxy and the problem with that is it’s 10 times more addictive than

20:45

Hydrocodone so then you go okay well they’re going to have to do safety studies and prove it in humans and show

20:52

that it’s not addictive not abusive nope human study never happened they were able to piggyback on their hydrocodone

20:59

cotton delivery system take the delivery mechanism and all it is is basically the ground up the powder and they create

21:05

layers So in theory if you take the pill you won’t get 100 milligrams of oxy at

21:10

once it’ll over eight hours dissolve into your body and you’ll get that absorption that was the premise and so

21:16

they said because of our patented delivery system this drug is non-abusive non-addictive we have a great safety

21:23

profile uh the other thing that happened is they went to the FDA and this is

21:29

where there’s a lot of [ __ ] they they literally met with the head of the FDA at the time after hours at a hotel this

21:36

is all documented now and he helped them draft their application then rubber

21:42

stamped it and pushed it through and gave Oxycontin the golden [ __ ] ticket

21:48

he put in the label that Oxycontin is less likely to be addictive or abusive

21:55

compared to other opioids in the market and then you give a rep that and you set

22:01

them out in a Marketplace and you give them a twenty thousand dollar a month expense account and you have them taken

22:07

guys to dinner drinking wine and eating steaks and they show in the label hey

22:13

we’re less addictive this is a safe drug we’ve got to stop pain you know let’s let’s really this isn’t just any more

22:20

for the cancer patient this is anybody in your practice who has pain we’re on a

22:25

mission to stop pain and all of them started getting addicted I mean it was

22:30

rampant uh and the the system was trash because once you grind up the pill you’ve just circumvented the delivery

22:37

mechanism and now it’s super addictive because they’re going to get high doses of an opioid

22:43

and that’s what a lot of people were doing that were abusing him right they were grinding it up and snorting it out and then they it reminded me a lot with

22:50

covet because what happened is patients were doctors were blowing the company up Purdue Pharma is the name of the company

22:56

and the families the sacklers so the Sackler family this is all documented

23:01

now and also Jamie anything I bring up I’ve put on the ways to our website slash JRE uh because we’re gonna go over

23:08

a lot of stuff so any data point or study or any of that I bring up is available on the website

23:15

um what they did was uh the Sackler family

23:20

ended up taking a agreement with the U.S government and part of that deal was they would pay I

23:26

think three billion dollars and then there was no uh they could not prosecute them or come

23:32

after them criminally and it was done so there was a three billion dollars go well they made I think nine or 12

23:39

billion nine to 12 billion I can’t remember the number but the three goes to the family or the government I don’t

23:44

know I’m not sure where at all if it went to the families of people and this hits close to home for me because my

23:50

brother died of opioids my brother died at 27. man and it’s I watched that

23:55

documentary and it makes me want to [ __ ] vomit I’m just like and it and it’s not just the sacklers it’s you know

24:02

Johnson and Johnson they’re known for their diapers and their notary eyes baby

24:07

soap Johnson and Johnson made more than anybody during the opioid pandemic they were literally growing they were doing

24:14

what people doing the marijuana trade they were turning basically juicing up and synthetically

24:20

altering opioid plants to grow faster and more potent so they could turn them

24:26

over quicker and so they supplied all the Opium into the United States and made billions of dollars billions of

24:33

dollars in the FDA uh at this point in time the uh DEA was getting involved

24:38

going to the FDA going to all these governmental bodies and saying look this

24:44

shit’s getting crazy like this is getting out of control the addiction rates are through the roof

24:49

what Purdue did at that time was pivot and go out and educate doctors on breakthrough pain these patients aren’t

24:57

addicted they’re just still in pain and the way to fix it is to write a more

25:02

opioids so they launched a 200 milligram pill and gave people more opioids oh my God

25:10

there’s a tragic uh that the one that is dope sick is is

25:15

like a docu-series but it’s not a documentary it’s like a fictional reality yeah

25:21

um there is a documentary documentary and it’s tragic it’s this Mormon family and he talks about this is the level of

25:27

bravado that Physicians oftentimes have here’s why they grew up more men and

25:32

they had been married they had multiple kids and the story is his wife got in a car wreck injured her neck and was doing

25:38

okay she was seeing a primary care doctor and a neighbor said you need to go to the pain clinic and go meet Dr so

25:44

and so long story short he puts her on oxy he puts her on a bunch of other meds uh she

25:52

ends up passing out all over the house the husband’s like taking pictures of her to document for the doctor and she

25:59

ends up in the ER at one point after she gets out they put her in rehab they get her clean again and that

26:05

Doctor’s practice reaches back out and asked to meet with the family and the wife this is like a true story in this

26:11

docu-series and when when the doctor meets with them and I’ve seen stuff like this happen the doctor said

26:17

I and I alone will make the medical decisions on my patient not you

26:24

so are we on the same page here and this this guy said I looked him in the eye

26:30

and I said yes sir anyways the guy’s wife OD’d and died like literally a month later and so they’re suing the

26:36

doctor they’re suing his practice so the doctor got her back on pills doctor got her back on pills and what was his

26:42

justification I am what’s this is where it gets so tough because when you’re in it like

26:50

when I was in it like erectile dysfunction and in Viagra like I said Cialis that’s fun right but some of the

26:55

drugs you’re you are really passionate about like and so I I think he I do believe that

27:03

there’s good and bad in every person right and sometimes people’s egos get in the way and he’s probably been to course

27:09

after course I mean the narrative they spent in this is he made hundreds of thousands of dollars in Consulting fees

27:15

from Purdue Pharma and was paid as a consultant and over a time span made I

27:20

think like three or four hundred thousand dollars off Purdue Pharma and so of course he’s going to push Purdue pharma’s product

27:27

um is is the narrative but what I saw a lot was you begin to drink the Kool-Aid

27:33

and bleed the belief if that makes sense um like this is we’re changing the world

27:39

we’re gonna launch these pain meds in there because you’re being financially incentivized for it so you have a reason

27:45

to think you have a reason to be skewed and then you’re opening the door to let

27:50

yourself be educated in a biased manner that makes sense you’re only listening

27:55

to half the narrative and that’s a problem uh and a lot of times Physicians

28:01

are listening to the big Pharma company rather than their patients God damn

28:07

so I mean I experienced that like we had a drug um Strattera

28:12

um and it it wasn’t like a dangerous drug it was a really safe drug meant to treat children with ADHD and I was

28:19

passionate about it like I believed in it because I [ __ ] failed kindergarten I literally went to pre-first there were

28:26

kids in my class with helmets because I was ADHD and dyslexic and at the time

28:31

the only thing on the market was Ritalin and they said we want your son on ritalin or we’re recommending that he goes to like special education basically

28:38

uh so I had to go to a pretty first and and then I jump forward I’m 23 and had

28:44

graduated college and I’m making great money and I see this drug that

28:49

is non-abusive non-addictive that we could be using to treat ADHD in kids and have them not go through all the

28:56

headaches that I went through as like an ADHD kid I was like this is amazing instead of Adderall and all these stuff

29:02

um and so you bleed it like you get really passionate about it when you buy in and nothing bad ever happened with

29:09

that drug it wasn’t as efficacious as the company presented it to be it didn’t seem to work as effectively

29:15

um it’s not always the case though I mean is there a lot of times a drug other than Cialis yeah which really does

29:21

what it advertises yeah but is there are there I mean that’s kind of always the

29:26

case that they exaggerate the benefits well the biggest challenge is not only the exaggeration potentially of the

29:32

benefits it’s the if they begin to re-engineer or apply it

29:37

to a different disease State um I’m trying to think of an example that would be a good one to give you they can

29:43

they can take a drug and the patent’s about to expire all right so let’s say they have a year left on the patent at

29:48

that point the company will begin to say how do we extend the patents so we can continue to get insurance coverage and

29:55

get paid and hit our numbers for Wall Street we’ve got to get another indication so when they resubmit for a

30:02

new indication based off just efficacy they do not have to go back and do

30:07

safety studies and so they don’t do human trials and so what they’re doing is they’re

30:13

they’re piggybacking but the dosages may change the disease States change the patient populations changed yeah it may

30:20

have been safe you know as uh osteoporosis drug and 60 year old women but is it safe now that you’re using it

30:27

in a 20 year old girl you know like that’s the type stuff that happens all the time

30:33

um and the guy who approved Purdue Pharma this is the craziest part the one who helped them draft their agreement

30:40

and all that guess where he went to work 18 months later Purdue Pharma

30:46

making 300 Grand a year which is always the case whether it’s in the financial sector or in medical yeah right that’s

30:53

what they do they always wind up working for some enormous Corporation after they set the regulations that would benefit

30:58

that Corporation they get a cushion job yeah I think it was um 12 out of the last 15 heads of the

31:05

FDA have taken jobs with in Private Industry for a big medical or big Pharma

31:10

God and so I I will say being behind the scenes

31:15

it’s the same I’ve heard you say this about police officers 90 of people I think are trying to do good they’re good

31:23

people but there are outliers in every capacity of Life period just because

31:30

somebody works for the government doesn’t mean they’re good and just because somebody’s a doctor doesn’t mean they’re good and just because somebody’s

31:36

a rep doesn’t mean they’re bad I didn’t see very many bad reps like there weren’t I didn’t see unethical when I

31:43

say bad I mean like I didn’t see a lot of unethical reps they existed like I’m not saying they didn’t but not

31:48

disproportionately any more than I saw in the rest of society so they’re incentivized to make a lot of

31:56

money and the best way to make a lot of money is to try to first of all the

32:01

patent system so if they lose their patent then the drug becomes generic and then it’s worthless to them correct

32:07

because then anybody can make it correct so they have to figure and what is the time period where a drug can become

32:12

generic you know I think it’s like seven or eight years I don’t know the exact number but they have a long time they

32:18

have a good amount of time to recoup their revenue uh and make their profits

32:23

and that’s one layer of what’s happening so I don’t I don’t want anyone to think

32:28

big Pharma is guilt not guilt-free because they’re not there’s a lot of uh

32:34

aggressive tactics that happen um like me knowing exactly what prescriptions they wrote one of the

32:40

other things I saw they did is when I first started we could type in call notes and so I’d come out of a doctor’s

32:46

office and I had to type in the computer what the doctor discussed what they said what happened with that is people

32:53

started reporting Adverse Events they would type in their doctor said that the

32:58

patient had a migraine headache or whatever it is well now that’s in the computer and now

33:05

that’s turned into corporate and now corporate has to report that back to the FDA depending on the event and in my

33:12

time in Pharma they switched from that to drop down boxes where it didn’t give me an option to type that stuff uh now

33:19

they tell you when you say drop down boxes so it literally was like uh they

33:24

would pre-script it I discussed with the doctor the efficacy and benefits of Cialis doctor agrees Cialis and it’s

33:33

just like bullet point bullet point and I choose from a drop down menu like multiple choice oh what did I talk about

33:38

today so you don’t have the option to like put in commentary on what correct

33:43

and now I would say it’s the same thing they did with don’t promote off label don’t promote off label Oh wait we’re gonna

33:51

have a thought leader come talk to you and educate you on what he’s doing in his or her practice and then they’re

33:56

promoting it off label the whole time and then they send you out into the field right where nobody’s looking and

34:02

nobody’s around and this thought leader told you this stuff it’s a shell game it’s like don’t say

34:09

this stuff but we’re gonna teach you this stuff and one and all of them do that and Eli Lilly was viewed as that’s

34:14

who I work for they were viewed as the most ethical at the time that was like their uh war cry their Battle Cry was we

34:22

are the most ethical company in big Pharma and again I’m not saying they were unethical I’m really not it’s just

34:29

there’s um that’s like being the Dexter of serial killers right exactly

34:36

so true uh and it it’s just it they set it up for failure that’s all I’m getting

34:42

at the system is set up for failure okay my bonus is based off volume if I don’t

34:49

get the volume I don’t get the bonus if I don’t get the bonus I can’t afford to remodel my kitchen or whatever it was at

34:55

the time you know I was a kid and I’m looking at it going okay well do you talk about this off-label stuff

35:02

because this guy is com you know complaining about XYZ maybe this is a niche where I can explain to him where

35:08

somebody else is finding success with this product does that make sense you’re not saying Hey how do I get this product that’s

35:15

going to hurt people into the doctors nobody thinks that right they think this is a good product this guy told me ways

35:21

he’s using it that aren’t necessarily FDA approved the company told me you

35:26

know in their online uh HR test that I’m not supposed to do

35:31

this but then they gave me all the data and resources to be able to do this and nobody’s hearing it’s me and my buddy

35:38

having wine at a bar like do I talk about these off-label things or do I not and I think a

35:44

disproportionate amount of the time people feel the pressure and they do because they’re financially it’s undressed and so when they do have these

35:51

Adverse Events when they do have overdoses addiction all these different things and they’ve switched this

35:57

drop-down system of reporting like how do those Adverse Events get reported and

36:04

how do they get documented now they would still heavily encourage you that’s that’s the part where I was going with

36:10

the it’s kind of it’s an unspoken thing does that make

36:16

sense so they they would say if you if you hear about an adverse event you have to report it and there would be emails

36:21

about if there’s an adverse event you have to report it and trainings on if there’s an adverse event you have to

36:28

report it but that wasn’t what happened in the field if you reported something all of

36:34

the sales force is pissed at you because you just [ __ ] in their next six months you know or whatever it is so

36:42

there’s I think the most recent data and this is med device I don’t know if this is Pharma but less than two percent of

36:47

Adverse Events are reported and that’s also a huge disposition right that’s the vaccine the Bears report they

36:54

said that somewhere in the neighborhood of one percent of Adverse Events get reported I would believe it and they’re

37:00

not even asking though I have a friend who she’s a clinician she’s a surgeon in Houston she trains Muay Thai she’s lean

37:08

she runs marathons phenomenal shape 34 years old had to get vaccinated for her job got vaccinated got boosted started

37:15

having blood clots now she’s like been in and out of the hospital almost died they had to do a blood transfusion I

37:23

mean it’s been a nightmare and I asked her did they have and I’m not and she got it after her booster and I didn’t

37:29

I’m not saying that’s what caused it because we’ll never know but I said did the hospital ask you or even like begin

37:36

to ask questions like is anyone even alluding to that potentially this could be caused by that and she said no

37:43

nobody’s nobody’s brought it up and she works at the hospital so I’m like man that’s so crazy to me it is crazy and so

37:51

their they’re trying to figure out a way to continue promoting these drugs whether

37:58

it’s the coveted vaccine or whether it’s any of these other drugs and the best way to do that is sort of minimize the

38:04

exposure to the Adverse Events correct and then the other issue is you could

38:10

have to recall depending on the nature of the Adverse Events you could have to recall did this data show up in studies

38:16

now you’re under a governmental investigation you know if the data was in the study and you swept it under the

38:21

rug or hit it which is what happened with oxy they they know they they were getting report after report there were

38:27

emails flying around in the first year of the drug launching that hey I think we have a problem here patients are

38:33

showing addictive Tendencies uh and they would just they would they literally hired a thought leader the same guy who

38:40

killed the woman that I was telling you about they hired him as a speaker and they taught him to educate clinicians on

38:48

pseudo addiction and the message was this patient’s not a addictive they’re

38:55

not addicted to the drug it looks like addiction it’s pseudoaddiction they’re addicted to the relief the drug is

39:00

providing them oh so the answer is to up their dose to avoid the Breakthrough pain and so a break screen it just it it

39:10

went crazy like Breakthrough infections when they were trying to share the efficacy of the fact that’s why when

39:15

they started saying it I was like hmm yeah but it’s and it turned out the

39:21

Breakthrough infections were not just rare it was more common than not yeah I

39:26

mean pretty much everybody I saw it I saw it yesterday on uh Apple news and it was like it was an article about the

39:33

state of California and it said that California is thankful that so many people are vaccinated because coveted deaths are rising and I thought to

39:39

myself in in the state of California I thought well then that means that it’s not even doing

39:45

the secondary thing they said it would do which is reduce the risk factor of it being more catastrophic to the

39:51

individual I’m like I’m I’m skeptical of I’m not I’m not going to go one way or

39:57

the other on the vaccine I’ll say this there’s two entities I definitely don’t trust in this world the federal

40:03

government and big Pharma and they’re both in cahoots yeah and it’s and there was a tremendous amount of pressure to

40:08

ramrod a drug into the marketplace tremendous amount of pressure to get these drugs into the marketplace and for

40:14

these pharmaceutical companies they have carte blanche there’s no risk factor for them zero yeah they can’t even if there

40:22

is something that comes back and my thing is if you’re asking me to trust

40:27

you then act in a manner that builds trust you’ve never done that as an industry you’ve never as an industry

40:33

been transparent open and honest you’ve always misled us it’s like over and over

40:39

and over again well in this one also about us it was so crazy because people were buying into it in a way that they

40:46

had never done before where people were enthusiastic about a medication the point where they were evangelizing it

40:53

and they would wear you know know they would put syringes in their Twitter bio showing everyone that they’ve been

41:00

vaxxed and it was it was a sign of virtue yeah this definitely was the it

41:06

was I mean it was only it was propaganda essentially yeah but it was definitely pushing a narrative and uh yeah it was

41:13

pushing a narrative but it was also people wanted that narrative they they bought it people wanted to feel safe yes

41:18

everyone wants to feel safe yeah um I mean we’ll see I guess time will tell

41:24

what the long term ramifications are um yeah that’s that’s the other thing if

41:30

you if you some of the products that hit the market they don’t do long-term studies on so

41:36

they may only be short-term studies and so some issues don’t manifest till down

41:41

the road um I’m trying to think of another example like Zyprexa I mean I I was another that was a mental health drug

41:48

that I carried and doctors would tell me Brigham this lady came in my patient she’s

41:54

gained 20 pounds like and she’s like the fifth one and I go back to the company and say hey this is like this doctor’s

42:02

telling me all these people are gaining weight well you know in the early stages of depression when somebody comes out

42:08

the other end of these uh depressed psychotic States uh they’re up they’re

42:14

mobile they’re active so they’re like eating again and think about a lot of times these people hadn’t eaten in weeks

42:19

and now they’re back up and eating and living life and enjoying life again and so then I go back out and regurgitate

42:25

that but it turns out it wasn’t the case it’s known that it’s impacting people’s uh I think like insulin response I can’t

42:32

remember the details but they got sued and they got sued for an array of different stuff on that that drug Zyprexa which was a blockbuster drug uh

42:40

for Eli Lilly and so is it a similar situation like with vioxx which is where they made like 12 billion but they got

42:47

sued for a fraction of that and so they walk out of it with an enormous amount of profit no matter what even though

42:53

they’ve been penalized that’s what happens over and over again it’s happened I mean there’s dozens upon dozens upon dozens of examples uh that

43:01

is the market that’s the game and then the coveted vaccine Market that’s not even going to be the case because they’re not able to get sued yeah so for

43:08

them this is like the Willy Wonka golden ticket yeah what scares me more about that is and we’re going to talk about

43:14

this throughout the whole Market it’s not sustainable if it’s all about profits and hitting quarterly earnings

43:21

and now you artificially inflated the earnings of all these big Pharma companies for the last two and a half

43:27

years they’re gonna have to get creative to hit their numbers for Wall Street next

43:32

year what are they going to do to do it what products are going to get pushed through the market faster to be able to

43:38

do it uh and the good news is on Pharmaceuticals they do require large

43:44

studies and they do typically require safety data in humans not just in

43:49

animals but the the butt to that is unless it’s a product that’s already

43:55

been on the market and so most of these products a lot of these products they just change the indication reapply for

44:01

the patent and now all of a sudden they’re using a different dosage or a different uh

44:06

you just using it to treat a different illness um and so it’s it’s tough I’m sure

44:12

you’ve seen the this new uh covid booster the Omicron booster the new

44:17

variant booster they’ve done no human trials oh I didn’t know that no see if you can find it but that makes sense

44:23

yeah and everybody’s like wait what yeah none yeah zero this is a new medication

44:30

so it’s a new version of a coveted vaccine and there’s no human trials

44:37

it’s crazy and they’re allowed to do that how here it goes FDA to authorized

44:42

new coveted boosters without trials and people

44:47

this is for Omicron which is very mild so this is not done to protect lives

44:53

this is done to maintain profit margins well one of the challenges and it’s not again if we

45:01

it’s human nature for us to try and find a witch and hunt it right and so this everyone says big Pharma is bad I’m not

45:09

here to tell you big farm is good or bad big Pharma is what it is in its big business and big business is about big

45:15

money and so just be cautious do your research understand that things aren’t

45:20

always what they’re presented to be but it’s not just big Pharma that’s where people misunder big medical your

45:26

surgeons your doctors the big insurance companies everyone has a part to play In

45:33

This Disaster that we’re calling a Health Care System that’s not it’s a sick care system we do not we do not

45:39

practice preventative medicine we do not prevent disease States we wait for somebody to get really sick and then we

45:46

give them a pill and we treat the symptoms not the root cause and it’s because the model is built

45:52

in a manner that is not conducive to practicing preventative care in fact most insurance companies won’t cover

45:59

preventative care less than two percent of an insurance company spend is geared towards preventative care most of the

46:06

time if you try to get any sort of preventative care the carrier will deny it one example I can give you is if you

46:11

are pre-diabetic you’re on the verge of diabetes we know if you transition to diabetes it

46:19

will cost Sevenfold annually in health care expenses to keep you basically up

46:25

and running why would an insurance company not proactively try to get you from

46:33

progressing into that disease State the answer is because just like big Pharma just like everything else it’s based on

46:39

quarterly earnings and they know we got to hit these numbers and they also know the average American switches jobs every

46:46

two and a half years and most Americans are insured through their employer so their thing is do we spend the money on

46:53

this person today this man or woman today to treat a disease State that’s going to be somebody else’s problem

46:59

tomorrow probably not it’s probably not worth it and so they punt they kick it Kick the

47:05

Can down the road and it’s the same with everything like the insurance companies are a major major Powerhouse that I

47:11

would say the single most influential and terrifying part of healthcare it’s

47:17

not big Pharma big Pharma has this flaws all the stuff you and I have talked about and it’s scary and you know again

47:24

I think there’s outliers or good and bad but big Insurance controls More Than People

47:30

realize like it’s it controls every aspect of medicine why is that more dangerous

47:36

um so one example I can give you is a lot of people don’t know this but so the

47:42

big five insurance companies they there was a a group called a PBM

47:47

have you ever heard of a PBM a lot of people haven’t it’s called a pharmacy benefit manager okay the PBM was brought

47:53

out I think in the 70s or 60s and the goal was to sort through all these new medications coming on the market and

48:00

they were a consumer Advocate the job of the pharmacy benefit manager was to go

48:06

negotiate with big Pharma and drive down the rates of these new products and new

48:11

drugs so that patients could afford it and it worked for a while

48:18

but what people didn’t realize happened is over time the pbms began to negotiate

48:24

rebates and they’re covered by safe harbors so we the public have no

48:29

visibility the federal government has no visibility nobody knows what the

48:34

pharmacy benefit managers are getting paid here’s what I mean by that

48:40

insulin Eli Lilly launched insulin that’s a hot button right now everyone talks about insulin and the cost of

48:45

insulin when Eli Lilly launched the product they made 145 dollars per vial

48:51

in profit all right or in Revenue um it since then even though the price of

48:58

insulin has tripled Eli Lilly now makes less than I think 120 dollars for the same bile so the

49:04

question becomes wait where did those additional dollars go it’s the same on

49:10

all these drugs what happens is the pharmacy benefit manager goes to the big pharmaceutical companies and says do you

49:18

want patients to be able to get coverage and use this drug and have it covered by their insurance then you’ve got to give us a rebate we

49:25

want fifty dollars a vial or I think I think right now they’re getting thirty dollars in insulin vial or something

49:30

like that is the what the analytics say and all this is also on the website I put all this out there so the pharmacy

49:35

benefit manager is indirectly running up the cost of care because what they’re doing is

49:41

negotiating a cut for themselves so then Eli Lilly and these companies go oh okay well we’re going to raise our price by

49:48

25 bucks a vials so we can pay the rebate to the pharmacy benefit manager so we can get preferred tier pricing on

49:55

an insurance plan and so almost any drug on an insurance plan that’s a tier one meaning like that’s the a drug the

50:02

insurance pushes you towards typically has a rebate that goes to the pharmacy benefit manager Jesus and so here’s why

50:09

that gets even more [ __ ] up the pharmacy benefit managers control 82 percent of the prescript three the three

50:16

big Pharmacy benefit managers control 82 percent of the medications filled in America

50:21

82 percent of the prescriptions filled in America are controlled by three big Powerhouse Pharmacy benefit managers but

50:29

the plot thickens who owns the pharmacy benefit managers the big five insurance

50:35

companies Cigna Aetna United they’ve gone out and bought the pharmacy benefit managers so

50:43

the people who decide what drug goes on formulary what your co-pay is what your employer’s expenses

50:52

are what gets reimbursed what doesn’t get reimbursed are also getting rebate

50:57

incentives on the back end and here’s why that’s really important and this is what most people are not understanding

51:03

I had I owned a retail pharmacy that would Bill insurance carriers if you

51:10

come into my Pharmacy if your grandma comes in and she tries to fill a prescription exactly I’ll give you

51:15

metformin my cost on Metformin is roughly two dollars I would sell her metformin for

51:22

four dollars as soon as she discloses that she has insurance I have a gag Clause I am not

51:29

allowed to tell her my cash pay price a swiper insurance card Blue Cross

51:36

whatever it may be boom co-pay ten dollars and she gets her medicine I charge her

51:42

ten dollars immediately when I swipe that card and I enter all that in the computer I get a seven dollar claw back

51:48

where does it go it goes to the vvm so you give it like I could have saved

51:54

her six dollars but I can’t disclose to her that

51:59

and now the money the profits I make less money she pays more money and the money goes back to the big insurance

52:05

companies and so I watched this [ __ ] [ __ ] talk in front of Congress who’s like the

52:11

head of the PBM I don’t know his exact title and he’s like if we didn’t save money nobody would be employing us

52:18

you’re employing yourself [ __ ] what are you talking about if we didn’t save money so they created these nets and so

52:26

this gets tricky because think about it if you have an elderly person over the age of 65 the average elderly Americans

52:32

on four or more meds okay so if Grandma is getting price gouged on four or more meds in her

52:39

out-of-pocket expense on those meds because sometimes your co-pays bigger so like on a tier one they go well hey that

52:46

Drug’s more expensive you’re gonna have to pay us you know 30 copay for it that

52:52

all goes back to that private payer so it’s it is a dangerous dangerous game

52:59

and it’s gotten out of hand that’s why insulin’s through the roof and this isn’t all anecdotal [ __ ] the state

53:05

of West Virginia felt like they were being defrauded by the big insurance companies and the pbms they fired them

53:12

and they said we’re going to bring everything in-house they saved 22 million dollars in the first 12 months you can Google PBM get fired by State

53:20

and State after state right now that the state of Texas is suing uh I’ll butcher

53:26

at centene or something like that they’re like uh they’re a very small PBM but they control the governmental pay

53:32

and so even that gets tricky because as we begin to talk about power big insurance

53:39

will literally rip the head off of big Pharma and [ __ ] down their throat they have all the [ __ ] power dude a

53:45

hundred percent all the power is in big insurance they they control what drugs get approved they control what drugs uh

53:52

get covered they control like which tier placement they get and now the big

53:57

insurance companies control all your lab testing any of the like if you want to get a blood work done like an example is

54:03

too I owned a blood lab you know I’ve I’ve had a bunch of different uh experiences in this space and when we

54:12

would go out and educate clinicians and say hey here’s the reason why you’d want

54:18

to pull blood work all the things that is now ways to well I explain you gotta

54:23

stop practicing sick care we cannot wait for patients to get sick what we need to do is get proactive and not reactive how

54:31

do we do that we begin to do that by analyzing the patient at a biological level and identifying potential risk

54:38

factors based off their markers and maybe they don’t have diabetes today but

54:43

if they’re on the verge of diabetes treat let’s start now let’s get ahead of

54:49

it before they progress in the disease State or the hole gets too big that they have to dig out of and doctors would say

54:56

okay yeah this makes sense we’d start educating them on all the panels to pull and for about 12 months we got

55:02

reimbursed and then the insurances started sending letters to doctors saying we don’t think you should have

55:09

pulled this blood work if you continue to pull these extensive panels we will put your contract under review so if I’m

55:17

a clinician and I lose Blue Cross Blue Shield I’m out of business we will put your contract under review

55:23

for taking proactive measures for keep people healthy for running up the cost

55:29

of Health Care is what the is what they will say like big Insurance’s narrative

55:34

is this guy’s running up the cost of Health Care pulling unnecessary blood pan channels on a patient you know this

55:41

guy’s 33 why did you pull a full panel well again that’s why we ended up

55:47

pivoting and doing ways to well and going cash pay and cutting out all these people which we’ll get into but I mean

55:53

layer upon layer upon another example pharmacogenetic test have you ever heard of it no most people [ __ ] have it you

55:59

know why insurance doesn’t [ __ ] cover it so it’s it’s an amazing test it’s it

56:04

and we launched it it’s a cheek swab you drop it in an envelope uh within 48 hours we know your unique genetic makeup

56:12

what your cytochrome p450 variants is and how you’re going to metabolize a majority of the medications on the

56:18

market including high-risk medications like Plavix that if somebody’s a slow metabolizer it could kill them uh it had

56:25

a black box warning like we could go down the list of all the benefits of this pharmacogenetic test and clinicians

56:32

loved it and they’re like oh my God it tells me how what it’ll tell somebody if an opioid won’t work because certain

56:39

outliers of the population have a unique genetic marker that makes their body incapable of properly processing an

56:46

opioid and getting pain relief and so we would say test these patients before you

56:51

write on these catastrophic medications like let’s see this is a known variable

56:57

and it’s not taking into consideration when they prescribe oxes correct yeah

57:03

and uh it’s it’s the test got covered by insurance for probably 12 to 18 months

57:08

and then Insurance sent letter saying we’re no longer covering this we’re not going to cover these tests what happens to a person if they have that variant

57:14

they do get prescribed opiates well they don’t get relief and so then the question becomes is this patient drug

57:21

seeking or is this patient just in pain right and that’s part of what we were trying to clear up do they just ramp up

57:27

the dose that typically they’ll end up up in the dose or they’ll try and pivot and find something else

57:33

um what is a pivot like how do you pivot when someone who’s not responding to the most part and you’re like yeah the pain

57:39

field they they’ve got they’ve got an array of tools in their tool belt I was never a pain specialist I wasn’t really

57:45

in that space but uh the other part of that what would happen is they came out

57:50

and they after the opioid disaster um they had all these guidelines on we

57:56

want you to if you’re going to prescribe an opioid in order to protect from Divergence or misuse we recommend that

58:04

you do a toxicology screening okay well even that the insurance quit covering

58:09

they used to cover that and they stopped covering in the majority of cases toxicology screens so all of the tools

58:15

that are safety nets are being strategically eliminated and it’s not some bad intention of let’s create this

58:24

terrible environment for people it literally just comes down to whether we’re talking about big Insurance big

58:30

Pharma or big medical or big hospitals they are trying to hit quarterly

58:35

earnings and so when you have something like covet vaccine scenes that come along and create this enormous source of

58:43

profit and then they’re not necessary anymore because it becomes endemic and then the

58:50

variants decrease in the the the potency to the point where it’s like a common

58:55

cold which is how many people experience Omicron then they have to find reasons

59:01

why you need to continually medicate yeah because they need to keep funneling

59:06

those profits in you got it because they’re in a place of constant growth right if you’re involved in the

59:13

corporation they don’t want bad years they don’t want bad quarters they if they’ve made enormous windfalls they

59:20

want to continue that yeah you got it no they if there is a way to continue to

59:27

reskin a drug and not have to go through the r d phase then they’re going to do it 10 out of 10 times and it’s even

59:33

crazier in Med device man I wait till the reason Med device is anything in the

59:38

operating room an implantable a pacemaker a knee a shoulder mesh

59:44

stitches sutures uh anchors screws plates

59:50

um all of it I brought this this is I brought a plate to show you I want to show you this and you tell me what you

59:56

think this amazing Marvel would cost well it’s a piece of uh is this titanium

1:00:03

it’s like it’s just a little piece of titanium metal what is that it’s uh that is about eight

1:00:08

hundred dollars and then each one of those holes is a screw the screws start at 125 dollars is this the such bone

1:00:15

it’s to give you a break break in your wrist it’s to set that and so when we

1:00:20

start talking about the price of healthcare it’s like that piece of technology has been around

1:00:27

for what 30 40 years that plate and we’re still charging seven hundred

1:00:32

dollars for a plate that costs what 50 cents to make I mean I can’t fathom that cost more than a couple bucks

1:00:40

but I I don’t know I don’t know enough about it but 700 for that and a screw is 125

1:00:47

bucks it looks like something you could pick up at Home Depot but where it gets crazy with big medical and I didn’t know

1:00:53

this when I was in medical um they have a process so the same way they try to extend patents and Pharma so

1:00:59

they don’t have to do safety studies in the 1970 I think it was 1975 the FDA

1:01:06

established what they called the 510k approval process and most nobody knows

1:01:11

this um essentially what it was was devices technology we’re we’re now coming up

1:01:18

quickly and they needed a way to get this technology into the OR safely and efficiently and quickly and the FDA

1:01:25

didn’t have the resources most of their funding comes from Private Industry that’s one of the other challenges UH 60

1:01:30

I think 62 or 63 percent of the fda’s funding is from Private Industry so it’s

1:01:36

not a government it is a governmental engine industry entity but it’s funded by Private Industry because the Market’s

1:01:43

grown so fast and they’re over they’re understaffed um they I think they have uh six or

1:01:50

seven percent of their annual budget goes towards biologic so very very little of their resources are towards

1:01:56

biologics and I say that so later when we talk about the biologics you’ll understand why it’s taking so long

1:02:03

um but uh whereas oh so the 510k process says this if you can show that there is

1:02:10

a like product on the market then they will they will allow you to

1:02:17

forego human trials and safety trials and launch the product into the marketplace okay and this started in

1:02:24

  1. they call it a daisy chain so example I can give you is by the time I

1:02:30

was in the operating room doing surgical sales we were selling state-of-the-art high definition camera systems that

1:02:36

would go into the body and allow Physicians to have visibility without cutting you open and do surgery

1:02:43

laparoscopically or arthroscopically uh all those things that’s just one example

1:02:49

but that technology was based off older technology had never been safety

1:02:54

studied and that’s across the board so when they when the FDA gave this loophole in 1975 they said we’re going

1:03:01

to give you the industry a loophole and it’s if you can show it safe because something else is in the market like it

1:03:06

then you’ll be grandfather Danny you can launch the product into the or um the plan was less than 10 percent of

1:03:13

the products in the operating room would go through this process that was the expectation

1:03:18

98 of the [ __ ] that is in the operating room came in through the 510k approval

1:03:25

process why that’s important there was never a safety study there was never human trials

1:03:31

and this stuff’s getting put in people so example I can give you is uh metal on metal hips there’s all sorts of lawsuits

1:03:39

uh about Metal on Metal they launched a hip based off you know 25 year old

1:03:44

patents that were already out there and all they did was change it to a metal on metal hip and

1:03:51

patients were beginning to experience dementia alzheimer-like effects because what was

1:03:57

happening metal on metal the metals grinding and metal shards are breaking off and getting into the bloodstream and

1:04:03

people were getting metal poisoning and so they to this day don’t know how many people were poisoned by metal on metal

1:04:09

hips and most of the companies have pivoted away from metal on metal but that’s just one

1:04:15

example there was a mesh launched by ethicon which is also Johnson and Johnson which is the people who made all

1:04:21

the money off the opioids and so in their Powerhouse they have a lot of lobbying power

1:04:26

um jnj launched a mesh the mesh had been in the marketplace forever um but it hadn’t been used for Women’s

1:04:32

Health like uh as a vaginal mesh for women who had like prolapsed vaginas or

1:04:38

issues female issues so they started putting these mesh up in women’s bodies but they’ve never done a human trial or

1:04:45

safety study on what would happen in the the uterus began to eat the Met like scar and swell around the mesh and cause

1:04:53

all these issues so women were having to have hysterectomies there’s a big lawsuit on that ethic on to this day

1:04:59

denies that it’s an issue but there’s lawsuit after lawsuit on it

1:05:04

um I’m trying to think of some other examples I mean there’s so many man there’s just it’s like one after the

1:05:10

next after the next some of them like an example would be like issue is this uh

1:05:15

sterilization technique to help a woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant but didn’t want to go through a hysterectomy

1:05:21

and so as this little spring-loaded device that they would shoot up in there the problem with it is they never did

1:05:27

any studies to see how to take it out and so there’s stuff as soon as they have Adverse Events now it’s like well

1:05:33

[ __ ] we didn’t really do a study to see how do we remove these items or these

1:05:38

people with hips having these issues like another example would be I won’t say the company but a company launched a hip that squeaks and so it’s known like

1:05:46

two years down the road your grandma’s gonna be walking loud yeah and so that’s an issue I mean

1:05:54

there’s just there’s dozen upon dozen upon dozen um medical is still in a way the wild

1:06:00

west um we had and and it’s just it’s crazy to me and I

1:06:06

say all this because I want people to understand everything is risk reward

1:06:12

stay healthy as long as you can take care of yourself get proactive you

1:06:18

do not want to go into surgery unless you absolutely have to like you do not

1:06:24

want to be on these different treatments and medicines unless you absolutely have

1:06:30

to and 80 percent it’s actually 82 percent of all cause mortality is

1:06:35

preventable 82 percent of the [ __ ] that’s killing Americans is preventable

1:06:41

and without having to go down the path of having diabetes and atherosclerosis

1:06:46

and cancer and all these different things we can prevent a lot of this stuff if we just got proactive but the

1:06:51

system’s not built to do that the system is built to crank patients in and out to

1:06:57

get them to use their insurance and pay their pay their co-pays and deductibles and move on down the road

1:07:03

you know you and I have had conversations about this before but never so in depth yeah and I’m even more

1:07:08

depressed now it is it’s it’s it is sad so ADHD I wanted to tell you like a real

1:07:15

tragedy is the elderly population we’re rapidly there are more people there’s I

1:07:20

think it’s in the next decade there’s going to be more people over the age of 65 than under the age of 17. so we are

1:07:26

rapidly progressing towards an elderly Society in a market where we’re rapidly

1:07:32

digressing with the amount of clinicians available to treat those people 40 reduction in Primary Care over the next

1:07:39

decade where are these people going to go for preventative care so your grandma goes in and she has four prescriptions and

1:07:45

she gets caught and that whole model I was telling you about this is where it gets really really bad most of the time

1:07:50

like let’s say I’m just going to use Simple numbers to try and make it easy let’s say she has ten thousand dollars

1:07:56

in coverage a year for medicines that’s what her insurance plan covers when they artificially

1:08:03

inflate the number right to the average wholesale price including their rebate

1:08:09

what they’re doing is wiping out her deductible faster you know what I’m saying they never pay that price so

1:08:16

let’s say insulin is 200 they didn’t pay 200. because they got the rebate but what they did is your grandma only

1:08:22

had 10 000 in coverage she’s got four medications that month if all of them were two hundred dollars that’s eight

1:08:28

hundred dollars Grandma’s out of treatment by eight nine months into the year now she’s got to come out of pocket

1:08:36

and so the insurance says no we don’t cover it we covered the first ten thousand you’re on the hook now it’s called the donut or the Gap and so

1:08:43

that’s the problem with the way they have this structured in these rebates and the shell game that they’re playing

1:08:49

is uh I think one in four Americans or the study newest study says one in four

1:08:55

Americans can’t afford their prescription medications my friend’s mom is mentally ill and uh she has

1:09:00

schizophrenia and a few other things and um she’s in a care facility and they

1:09:07

just uh because of the insurance they just minimized her dose they just reduced her dose and she’s having

1:09:13

full-on episodes and they won’t do anything and he tried to talk to her and

1:09:19

he tried to talk to the to the people at this facility and say hey you’ve got to put her back on her medications she’s

1:09:25

going off crazy and not and they’re like you’re not a doctor we’re not going to listen to you and so now he’s helpless

1:09:31

watching his mother have these schizophrenic breakdowns she

1:09:36

thinks there’s a chip in her brain she thinks people are talking to her the government’s plotting against her

1:09:42

full-on episodes and they had it under control with the proper medication but then that proper medication became too

1:09:48

expensive she ran over her money sad it is really sad it’s really hard

1:09:54

like in any it’s the same in the surgical Market uh on average it takes three to nine months

1:10:00

to get approved for a spine surgery and so the problem with that is now they’re

1:10:05

addicted to opioids somebody with a catastrophic spine injury that and you you’re arguing with

1:10:12

the insurance for three to nine months to get a surgery done that by that point they’re going to be hooked on opioids

1:10:17

they’ve been on opioids for almost a year like good luck break and then not to mention you’ve wrecked their

1:10:22

endocrine system because opioids are catastrophic for hormones I mean it is

1:10:28

such a Cascade effect of decline it’s terrible and then this is why I’m so

1:10:33

passionate about regenerative preventative using biologics using peptides getting ahead of the curve

1:10:40

stopping disease States before they happen 30 [ __ ] percent of spying cases end

1:10:45

up back in surgery what happens as soon as I think I told you this as soon as you and I’ll use this water ball as soon

1:10:51

as I lock in this Infuse this portion of the spine all the vertebrae below it are still

1:10:57

moving all the vertebrae above it are still moving so now anatomically I’ve created a structural stress issue and

1:11:04

the what happens inevitably is within a couple of years most people end up back under the knife getting another Fusion a

1:11:11

getting infused in a different vertebrae is that mitigated in any way by these articulating titanium discs that they’re

1:11:19

using now because I know quite a few people that have had that done you know I haven’t those I didn’t see those when

1:11:24

I was in the or so I don’t know how much that’s changed because I do know if you look at spine uh satisfaction rates

1:11:30

they’re pretty low they’re pretty horrendous everyone that I know that’s gotten fused is [ __ ] including Ronnie

1:11:37

Coleman who came in here who has his whole back done I mean they they started

1:11:42

doing him and then they wound up doing his whole back and he can’t walk now I mean I know he’s gotten some stem cells

1:11:49

and apparently he’s had some improvement in that regard but they literally just fused everything and

1:11:56

it’s back to the point where it’s that’s why I don’t understand why they don’t and I do understand because what I tell

1:12:01

people is Fighters fight Baker’s bake Sergeant’s cut that’s what they know if

1:12:06

I talk to Sir like one of my really good friends is uh does all the Texans and uh

1:12:12

rockets and has been a team DOC for all these teams and um we’ve argued over stem cells because

1:12:18

his thing is like stem cells don’t exist you can’t get stem cells in the United States you know they’re illegal uh

1:12:26

I mean just the whole narrative that he’s been taught um and the truth is do you want me to

1:12:35

break down stem cells should we try and explain it so most of the products on the market

1:12:40

do not have live cells there are two types of products there are cellular and

1:12:46

they’re acellular cellular products have to be stored in a cryo freezer kept at

1:12:51

extremely cold conditions or kept on liquid nitrogen that’s the only way to

1:12:57

maintain cellular viability um so that that’s one component the

1:13:02

other component is the founder of these mscs the scientists

1:13:08

who discovered these mesenchymal stem cells has since in an open letter apology to the medical community

1:13:15

redacted the name and said I should have never called them mesenchymal stem cells

1:13:21

is it mesingamal or mesenchymal you can say either it’s both it’s but it depends yeah it’s the same but a lot of the phds

1:13:30

that I’ve done calls with and stuff say mesenchymal side that’s what’s been hammered into my head

1:13:35

um but I asked that same question because I didn’t want to sound like an idiot and he’s like oh you can say you say hi there he re he and Dr Kaplan who

1:13:43

discovered this and he said I did a disservice these are mesenchymal

1:13:48

signaling cells not stem cells and how did that bloop happen it’s because in a

1:13:55

in in uh vitro in a Petri dish he was able to get the cells to differentiate

1:14:01

but when in Vivo put in the body these cells do not differentiate they don’t

1:14:06

become anything but that’s not bad that’s not good or bad it’s just it is

1:14:11

what it is the the blessing is one of the fears from the FDA in a lot of these regulatory bodies is what if we

1:14:18

put these cells in and they become a cancer cell and they start growing cancer in patients again the fact that

1:14:25

they don’t differentiate means they don’t become anything so you get all of

1:14:30

the benefits of the signaling cells triggering the body’s own natural healing process you get not only uh

1:14:38

mesenchymal signaling cells but you get cytokines exosomes scaffolding uh uh

1:14:44

vesicles all of these goodies that feed cells uh and the cool thing about these

1:14:51

mscs is they will literally connect to a cell that’s dying and transfer their

1:14:58

mitochondria so they will give their mitochondria to dying cells and that’s a

1:15:04

that’s a lot of the reason why they think there’s such good results on like skin like I was telling you with my face

1:15:09

when we treated my face with stem cells you’re you’re literally getting rid of the dying cells and juicing them

1:15:15

refueling them and then triggering the body’s own natural healing process but

1:15:20

mscs have become like the big focal point but in reality there’s a plethora of like nutrients and goodies in these

1:15:28

tissues so the reason that people would say they’re illegal are well one they’re

1:15:34

not mesenchymal stem cells they’ve renamed it to mesenchymal signaling cells they don’t differentiate those are

1:15:42

important things to know the second is um these tissues are all placental

1:15:48

derived meaning placental or perinatal derived depending on cellular or

1:15:53

acellular why is that important during the Bush Administration they were worried that people would be aborting

1:15:59

fetuses and taking fetuses and cloning cells and manipulating cells to try and

1:16:05

find the Fountain of Youth and that was the fear from the community oh my God

1:16:11

are they going to start killing babies to make makes them themselves this comes from all of the thought leaders today

1:16:18

for the most part agree that the best place to get it is the placenta because it’s and they do this through a healthy

1:16:25

birth healthy mother pre-planned C-section they then take these tissues

1:16:30

that would have previously been discarded they cryo-freeze them they take them to a ISO certified lab they

1:16:37

run them through a rigorous screening process one in 10 umbilical cords makes it through to the end because if there’s

1:16:43

any contaminants or cross-contaminants those get thrown out what you cannot do in the United States

1:16:49

what is illegal is fetal stem cells or using any sort of fetus to to harvest

1:16:56

stem cells and it is also illegal to isolate or manipulate the cell and put

1:17:02

it in the body and so even though uh Neil reardon’s using placental derived

1:17:09

tissues in Panama what he’s doing differently is he’s isolating out the mscs and then for lack of a better term

1:17:15

culturing them in a Petri dish and creating a larger number of the mscs and

1:17:21

putting that into the body now is there a benefit to that I don’t my answer that would be that I don’t

1:17:28

know of a downside I really don’t but in medicine they say therapeutic dose is

1:17:35

the minimal dosage required to elicit the desired response with a minimal side effect profile and so I look at what’s

1:17:41

available here in the United States and say I mean you’ve experienced it I can go we could go through testimonial after

1:17:48

testimonial hundreds and hundreds of people and athletes and elderly people

1:17:53

and people with you know back injuries knee injuries shoulder injuries elbow injuries we’ve had phenomenal results

1:18:00

just using perinatal tissues and there are live cells that’s what people need

1:18:05

to because what their doctor will say is oh that’s [ __ ] there’s no Life Cell you can’t do stem cells in America

1:18:12

they don’t know they don’t know the literature and I also uh on the website I included just so it’s not Bro Science

1:18:18

Study after study there are white paper studies that just got presented at the orthopedic Journal uh they did a study

1:18:25

with amnion in the hip and amnion versus placebo it was like 70

1:18:32

something percent of people had significant Improvement in hip pain uh four weeks out and up to a year out

1:18:39

versus placebo which was like 90 percent of them were miserable and so this stuff works I understand where the FDA is

1:18:46

coming from their stance is well another area of where this is illegal is just so we can debunk all of

1:18:53

it what happened is a lot of bad players this happens with every time something

1:18:58

new comes out there’s loopholes right and so because the federal government

1:19:03

recognized the value in amnion and some of these placental derived tissues and

1:19:08

perinatal tissues they gave what was called a q code a q code is just a billing technique that allows a

1:19:16

temporary loophole on a treatment so that the doctor can get reimbursed for

1:19:22

what they’re doing so jump forward that Q code was indicated for basically wounds wound

1:19:28

management if you have a severe wound or you’re a diabetic wound you can bill for

1:19:34

that product and it’ll get covered but then what happened is it got in the

1:19:39

marketplace and people began to manipulate the system and use it in a spine use it in an elbow use it in a

1:19:46

wrist use it and tell the patient well to be covered by Insurance well they were building it using a q code

1:19:52

that wasn’t approved the Q code was indicated for a wound you’re not treating a wound so you can’t build that

1:19:59

code that’s Healthcare fraud that happened and so then all the payers get mad and then the Department of Justice

1:20:06

gets involved and so they start putting pressure on the FDA a lot of the backlash on these products is nothing to

1:20:13

do with safety or efficacy has a lot more to do with bad players doing bad stuff

1:20:18

that’s it like even even the Adverse Events like uh I mean these products

1:20:25

have been they’re not even products these tissues these cells have been around millions of years this is

1:20:30

millions of years of evolution I don’t know if you’re there when Tony was telling me the doctor said this is Bro Science and uh that he how much of the

1:20:38

literature these doctors read when they when they spout out this is bro signs it seems like this is really comprehensive

1:20:45

and time-consuming research to try to educate yourself about the efficacy of

1:20:51

these things how they’ve been applied how they’ve been effective what what’s worked what hasn’t worked is there any

1:20:57

incentive for these doctors to even do this work and like where are they getting this narrative that it’s bro

1:21:04

signs well you’re going right down the right path because the truth of the matter is like I said earlier a

1:21:09

surgeon’s tool is to cut that’s what he knows that’s what he or she’s trained in that’s their proficiency that’s their

1:21:16

passion and that’s where they know that they can make an impact I’m not here to say that’s good or bad

1:21:22

but anything that disrupts that is an antagonist to their practice is an

1:21:28

antagonist to their livelihood so there is no Financial incentive to

1:21:35

Embrace this technology and and so they when we start talking about this there’s an age-old quote in its science evolves

1:21:43

one funeral at a time and it is the most true [ __ ] thing I’ve ever heard wow that’s that’s harsh

1:21:49

then the current thought leaders will always suppress the up-and-coming

1:21:54

thought leaders and it’s not until those guys either die off or retire that new

1:22:00

trains of thought and procedures make it into the marketplace our Market is

1:22:05

typically 20 years behind the technology it’s 20 years it took us 15 years for

1:22:11

doctors to accept penicillin they thought he was a quack and now he I think he won a Nobel Peace

1:22:18

Prize and it’s like a legend in medicine but for 15 years he was ostracized and told he was a quack and doesn’t know

1:22:24

what he’s talking about and you’re crazy and now it’s embraced and so I just think

1:22:32

it’s a it’s an easy easy way out is to say I don’t have time for that and I’m busy and I know that if I do this

1:22:39

procedure it works you know I mean it does but what does the patient have to go through to get to that end point if

1:22:45

there is a better solution I mean 30 percent of patients are unhappy with their total knee can we avoid a total

1:22:52

knee I think the answer is yes I think as these products evolve and there’s a ton of these products in stage three trials

1:22:59

with the FDA it’s finally finally coming um I think in the next few years you’re

1:23:05

going to see a lot of it hit the market will insurance cover it I don’t know insurance doesn’t cover what’s best for

1:23:11

the patient insurance covers what’s best for their pocketbook that’s why we’re still using 20 year old

1:23:16

joints when we talk about Innovation people say well why is that plate so expensive medical device big Pharma

1:23:23

whatever it is the narrative is it’s expensive because we spend millions and millions of dollars on Innovation

1:23:29

[ __ ] we’ve been using the same [ __ ] knee for 25 years literally

1:23:34

we’ve changed it’s metal now it’s plastic now it’s poly plan now it’s like but it’s the same knee it’s been out 20

1:23:40

years why aren’t they innovating they’re not innovating because you don’t get paid to innovate you can’t so the

1:23:47

insurance controls the reimbursements the insurance is cut reimbursements to the hospital an orthopedic surgeon wants

1:23:53

to do a joint he’s making less money per joint than he’s ever made in his life he’s having to do more joints per day to

1:23:59

make the same money and make that Porsche payment and all of those things and then at the same time for big

1:24:06

medical they’re taking a five percent cut typically annually from the hospital systems on the same joint that they were

1:24:13

selling a decade ago for double the price right and so every year five percent cut five percent cut five

1:24:18

percent that’s not going to go back up you think you’re going to launch some new state-of-the-art joint into the marketplace and all of a sudden be able

1:24:25

to charge five thousand dollars a joint no there’s no way because the hospital is going to say hit the bricks and now

1:24:30

that’s even controlled when we talk about Innovation what’s happened is where I was going earlier with the

1:24:35

doctor used to know the family and used to come to the house and used to know you as a human you’re just a number you’re coming into

1:24:42

the hospital he’s got to see 42 patients that day he’s hoping that a percentage

1:24:47

of you need surgery so he can continue to up their numbers and in most guys

1:24:52

again like I said 90 of these people truly care like they do they they’re not

1:24:58

they’re not bad guys and I they come in with the best of intentions but the system chews them out and spits them out

1:25:04

and so big medical is not innovating anything that’s not going to get reimbursed and we’re in an insurance

1:25:11

model so Innovation is now stifled because I can’t launch a state-of-the-art joint

1:25:17

if I’m not going to get paid for it and you’re not going to get paid for it in this sick care system you’re going to make less next year than you made this

1:25:23

year that’s just where we’re at and the hospital is going to get paid less next year than they did this year

1:25:28

while the profits of the big five insurance companies are the biggest they’ve ever been halfway through this

1:25:35

year I want to say and Jamie you can fact check me if you want I’m not positive but I want to say it’s 300

1:25:40

billion in revenue is what United Healthcare done halfway through the year I mean the numbers are just getting

1:25:47

staggering and they have so much power and so much lobbying they control what

1:25:52

products get put on the formulary they control what reimbursements are on surgeries they control what your co-pays

1:25:58

and deductibles are they control what the employer’s Plan cost the employer and the only way

1:26:06

to continue to make the Ponzi scheme work is to either cut

1:26:13

cut benefits or increase cost and so they’re doing a little bit of both every

1:26:18

year the cost of where Health Care goes up and we get a little less coverage they say uh I think it’s 50 of Americans

1:26:24

are underinsured or somebody it’s crazy numbers like the statistics are scary and so all of this train wreck [ __ ] is

1:26:32

the reason why we started ways to well we were in it I saw it I saw them not allowing patients to get blood work I

1:26:39

saw the pressure they put on these providers and I realized the only way

1:26:44

that a provider can spend the time it takes to truly uncover the root cause of

1:26:49

what’s going on with somebody is if we go to a cash pay model and cut all these middlemen out

1:26:54

and so that’s that’s how we ended up structuring that but um so how did you make this leap so I

1:27:01

want to take you back to you going from selling Cialis to the movie to Houston you start selling these psych meds and

1:27:08

this is what you’re promoting like when do you become aware that this is a real giant issue and how do you make this

1:27:15

like pivot in your mind I was still young and dumb um so I didn’t see Pharma as a bad guy I

1:27:22

just thought man I don’t like that I’m not I don’t want to sell this anti-psychotic I don’t really believe in it I don’t feel comfortable so I would

1:27:29

focus I had multiple drugs in my bag I would only sell what I believed in but then I’d get in trouble for not selling

1:27:34

the other drugs so then I’m like oh [ __ ] I gotta start selling these other drugs but I don’t want to sell these other

1:27:39

drugs because I don’t believe in them so I started to look at what are my other options Med device jumped out it’s like

1:27:45

man you’re in the operating room you’re helping Pioneers state of the art surgeries this sounds pretty cool

1:27:51

um and it took me about a year to get in that’s a tough tough gig to get it’s

1:27:56

it’s like for sales in a sales World Med devices the creme de La Creme like it’s

1:28:02

the be all in all you can make more than the surgeon doing the surgery it’s it’s insane I was 100 commission I

1:28:11

literally it’s same thing it’s in this is where I’m saying that it’s not

1:28:16

nobody ever gives you a bad message I carried thousands of products thousands

1:28:21

of like literally A Book Like This of different plates and implants and screws

1:28:27

and thoracic cases and Urology cases OB GYN cases so I was crash coursing on all

1:28:33

the different anatomies and procedures and trying to figure out where can I sell this camera and where can I do this

1:28:38

and where can I do that and uh you’re just set off into the I was in the Texas Medical Center which is the largest

1:28:43

Medical Center in the world um and I just went out started meeting surgeons like it was a interesting job

1:28:50

when they hired me I loved it because my boss said I don’t want you to sell I need you to change

1:28:56

that mindset you are not a salesperson I do not do the Pharma thing you’re not

1:29:02

here to date a dump you’re not here to preach to doctors I want you to go out and make friends

1:29:07

go out and make friends and solve problems and if you do those two things you’re going to do great here and so I

1:29:15

did that for 13 years I was a number two rep in the company I never missed quota in 13 years I was one of two guys to

1:29:20

never miss a number but the stress was high as [ __ ] you’re a hundred percent commission I took a I took the job and

1:29:28

literally was nine months in and hadn’t sold a single [ __ ] thing I’d put like 12 Grand on my credit card trying to

1:29:35

like no expense account no whining and dining this is you go out and you grind you show up at hospitals and you begin

1:29:42

to build relationships and you try and get your stuff into the operating room uh it was nuts

1:29:48

um and so I was like 12 Grand credit card debt thinking oh my God I made the worst mistake of my life taking this job

1:29:54

100 commission I mean it was it was scary and so the first year I ended up

1:30:00

making quota like with a few weeks left in the year and uh and I was 100

1:30:05

commission and so I didn’t get paycheck until like the last quarter of the year I got my first paycheck and they do they

1:30:13

do a draw so I got a big paycheck because I sold a big hospital contract but then they took all my money because

1:30:20

they had been floating me until I sell so when I I say this not because I’m bashing the company it was a fun job and

1:30:27

it was cool but it is very high stress very very high pressure because I am a

1:30:34

hundred percent commission if I go spend like an example I can give you is I did a trial at Texas Children’s Hospital and

1:30:40

showed them the state of the art equipment I spent two months in there I brought lunches I did dinners I stood in

1:30:46

surgery From Dusk Till Dawn I got up at 4 am I got home at nine o’clock at night uh crashed woke up did it all over again

1:30:52

because you have to be there early in the mornings to make sure all the equipment’s ready the sets are ready you’ve got everything you need for this

1:30:59

surgical procedure every procedure is different every procedure requires different tools and you got to have all

1:31:04

your stuff there three months did the whole thing and they called me and they’re like hey we’re going with you

1:31:10

we’re giving you the deal you worked your ass off kid it was though our director she was so nice she’s like you

1:31:15

worked your ass off we’re gonna give you this deal about a week later they call me and go we have a doctor who doesn’t want to use

1:31:20

your stuff we’re going another Direction I’m sorry so think about like I went from thinking I’m going to get a

1:31:26

paycheck for all my hard work too I made zero I burned not only made zero I spent all my money and so I I say that

1:31:34

narrative because it is a dangerous game to play in my mind with people’s lives

1:31:41

you get when there’s that level of pressure on a sales person right and it’s do or die and you need to get this

1:31:47

deal or you lose your job or if you misquota your territory gets cut so once

1:31:54

you miss like when they they put guys up on the stage and they go this guy made a million dollars last year and he did

1:32:02

but if he misses his number his territory gets cut in half so now he makes five hundred thousand dollars if

1:32:07

he misses it again his territory gets cut in afghanist now he makes 250. you can move backwards real fast and so the

1:32:13

the game is like how do you keep growing and that’s how they’ve structured it because again it’s not about patient

1:32:20

outcomes it’s about profits and financials and so the other thing they get is they gamify it

1:32:27

um which was genius they hired all athletes literally all my counterparts

1:32:33

were like former NFL guys like retired NFL guys retired call or college

1:32:38

athletes at least Collegiate level and they make it a game we’re gonna rank you we’re going to show the rankings we’re

1:32:44

gonna like you’re gonna compete against each other we’re gonna have the winners breakfast and the losers breakfast if

1:32:50

you hit quota you get to go to Winners breakfast we’re gonna give you a big check if you miss you’re going to the

1:32:55

losers breakfast where you get cold eggs and like they give you a speech about how to not suck so bad like I never went

1:33:03

to one of those I don’t know so but it was terrible everyone would be embarrassed when they’d have to go to that breakfast and the reason I want to

1:33:09

share that is that level of pressure to me is just not a good idea in healthcare and that’s All Med device Med device is

1:33:16

very high pressure pressure cooker so you have reps in there trying to push product trying to hit numbers trying to

1:33:23

put hit quotas trying to get their commissions and their bonuses and that’s not conducive to like necessarily doing

1:33:30

what’s best for patients so how do you make this pivot towards

1:33:35

ways to well like what is your what’s your journey like how do you go and eventually Branch out honestly it was

1:33:42

almost it was really so two two different major events happen one the passing of my brother

1:33:48

um passing from opioids and how did your brother get hooked on opioids what was the uh he had some sort of I think it

1:33:54

was his ACL he had a procedure he got on pills and then he started taking them and then he started getting on Black Market none of us knew that he was

1:34:00

addicted um and then what happened is once they tighten up the restrictions on

1:34:05

opioids it became harder and harder to divert and get opioids illegally so that when they talk about the opioid deaths

1:34:12

what’s totally misleading is they’re only telling you how many people died at opioids what they’re not telling you is

1:34:18

once they pulled those opioids off the market everyone turned to heroin so how many people died over heroin over

1:34:23

the last 10 years that’s what happened with my brother he had never taken heroin we had all the text messages

1:34:29

[Music] um he uh he couldn’t get pills anymore and he he went out and got heroin for the

1:34:35

first time and he snorted it it was powder heroin and it was cut with fentanyl and it stopped his heart

1:34:40

and uh I remember I was like sitting in my house and I got a phone call from a stepmom screaming and I couldn’t

1:34:46

understand her I was like what Tammy what’s going on I thought it was my dad and she just said your brother’s dead he’s [ __ ] dead

1:34:52

and uh I was just like in shock uh like total shock and so that

1:34:59

I had been approached for years by doctors who I because they my Physicians

1:35:05

did trust me they became my friends I would go in and they would launch a new product and it’s a pump let’s say and

1:35:11

they’d say hey when are you gonna bring in the new pump you know I heard at the corporate office marketing told us about the pump I’m like I’m not bringing in

1:35:17

that pump that pump’s a piece of [ __ ] like I’m not bringing you something that you’re gonna get mad at me about I’m

1:35:23

only going to bring you the stuff I think is good and so I’d like if you want to try it we can try it but I would not try it right and I would just be

1:35:30

honest with them so then they would say what do you think of this what do you think of that and through just being

1:35:36

honest I killed it it was crazy it was like this weird anomaly it’s like hey

1:35:41

just tell the truth and everything’s gonna be okay like you win some you lose some I don’t have to sell you everything let me find what I have that can help

1:35:48

you and your patience and your patient population and let’s use that let’s focus on that

1:35:54

um but as the doc so the doctors began to trust me and jump forward after my brother passed away in a bunch of

1:35:59

different different things happen in the state of Texas is a whole other convoluted space so it cut me off if any

1:36:05

of it gets boring there’s because it’s a lot to cover it is people don’t understand this every single thing that

1:36:11

touches your Physician’s practice they there is a potential that they

1:36:18

either indirectly or directly have a financial interest in forget big Pharma forget them getting

1:36:23

paid as a consultant that’s Pennies on the dollar your orthopedic surgeon owns the braces

1:36:30

that get put on your knee and marks them up they own into the labs in the MRI

1:36:35

centers they own into the surgery centers where they cut they own into all

1:36:41

of it right so what happened is insurance pays less and less and less doctors start making less and less and

1:36:47

less doctors look for ways to recoup the income that they lost merges with or in launches into what’s

1:36:54

called an ancillary market so all of a sudden overnight on every corner MRI

1:37:00

centers popped up because people went out and told doctors you can own into the MRI center instead of sending it off

1:37:06

to just a random MRI center send it off to your MRI center and you own in and

1:37:12

I’ll manage it and I’ll run it for you and so now granted again ninety percent

1:37:18

of people do [ __ ] right 90 of them are doing these MRIs anyway but there are

1:37:23

the outliers that are terrible humans that are going to run more MRIs because they have a financial interest

1:37:29

um my doctors came to me one of my big providers and he said hey I trust you I

1:37:35

don’t trust these other guys would you have any interest in jumping ship from

1:37:40

Surgical and going out and building physician Dome labs and pharmacies and

1:37:48

I told him I’m interested but I need to explore it and figure out what it looks like how this works you know I just want

1:37:54

to make sure anything we do we do write how can they do that are you are they allowed to have ownership and so long

1:38:01

story short he’s like if you do it I can bring you a huge huge group of providers like we’ll we’ll all sign with you

1:38:07

because we trust you um I went out and this is crazy I went out

1:38:13

I took the money I had saved up from being a device rep and I spent a huge chunk of

1:38:19

my life savings on meeting with former doj attorneys Healthcare compliance attorneys just data downloading trying

1:38:26

to understand how does this work if we’re going to do it we’re going to do it right what are the risks what are the pitfalls how do we make this ethical how

1:38:33

do we make this not dirty and grimy how do we do it in a way that’s fair and just to the patient but in a way where

1:38:39

we can still be profitable and make money and to me the answer was if these are tests that doctors are doing anyway

1:38:45

and we establish clear concise clinical protocols then yeah there’s no issue

1:38:51

with them having a passive interest in the entity because they’re going to do it anyway so it may as well be with an

1:38:56

entity that I own and so we went out and started structuring these entities

1:39:01

um and there’s a way to do it right and there’s a way to do it wrong so I’m going to tell you because he gets wild dude wild I went out and I hired Dr Bill

1:39:10

Massey who said on Donald Trump’s opioid abuse or Obamas opioid abuse committee

1:39:15

and he’s a PhD a thought leader in the field he established all of the clinical protocols he’s a former like he

1:39:23

established the protocols for the Mayo Clinic at one point he’s a thought leader and I said Bill what makes sense

1:39:30

tell me what’s good medicine and I will roll those initiatives out to the doctors and so that’s how we ran a model

1:39:37

and so what essentially long story short we owned pharmacies we owned Labs we owned all these things and Physicians

1:39:43

are legally allowed to have a passive interest meaning so the way the law

1:39:49

reads is you can never pay a provider or an influencer of referrals on the value or volume of his or her referrals

1:39:55

That’s the Law um but you’re allowed to sell them an interest in a business entity so when

1:40:02

your surgeon takes you to a surgery center they own into that typically um and the way the law reads is they can

1:40:08

own up to 40 percent now what you’re not allowed to do is ever adjust or change

1:40:14

things based off that provider’s referrals so the way we ran our model

1:40:19

everybody writes a check everyone Buys in everyone has equal Equity everyone

1:40:26

gets a distribution on the success or failure of the entity I don’t care if you send me 500 patients or five it

1:40:33

doesn’t matter you’re all getting the same distribution does that make sense and in an effort to not skew that line

1:40:41

and then for me it was so passionate because what we were selling was

1:40:46

non-abusive non-addictive pain creams and I’m like oh my God this is like we

1:40:51

can save lives we can get people away from taking these abusive drugs uh but

1:40:57

that was the thought and you said pain creams like what’s in the pain creams uh it’s a ketamine-based pain cream but you

1:41:02

can’t isolate out or extrapolate the ketamine and so when applied topically it’ll it’ll it’ll basically uh numb the

1:41:10

neuropathic pathway that’s sending the signal from the knee to the brain or from the elbow to the brain and it was

1:41:16

an array of different things like the genetic testing pharmacogenetic all these different things and

1:41:23

we did that for a brief stint and it was the Wild West the long story short is it

1:41:28

was so corrupt it was so dirty it was terrible dude I’m sitting here so I’ll

1:41:36

tell you how I ran mine so you have a means a comparison I went out I hired Bill Massey he

1:41:41

established all my clinical protocols my meeting with a physician would go something like this if this was your

1:41:47

mother if this was your daughter if this was your sister or brother would you do this test

1:41:53

and if the answer is yes then do the test and if the answer is no then don’t do the [ __ ] test period like let’s

1:42:01

just do what’s right and here Dr Bill Massey’s recommendations here’s his

1:42:06

clinical protocols that he established for the Mayo Clinic back in the day and this is this is what I think what say

1:42:12

you do you think this makes sense and we would take a clinical approach I was and then so there’s that aspect

1:42:19

then I went out and got a fair market value assessment from an independent third party like anything I do I’m gonna

1:42:25

do right I went in with belt and suspenders I’m like I’m gonna get a fair market value assessment I want to make

1:42:30

sure that everything that we’re doing here is on the up and up so I got two different fair market value assessments

1:42:37

from an independent third party accounting firm to make sure whatever we distributed to doctors was fair and then I hired a former FBI agent to

1:42:44

run my compliance because I said this is such a sticky space and it’s so confusing so I brought in a former FBI

1:42:50

agent to run compliance I brought in a former doj prosecutor to structure everything and tell me what I can and

1:42:56

can’t do and so I spent all this money launch all of this and get it all ready and I’m ready to go

1:43:04

and I go to meet with the doctor who had asked me to do all this and he says yeah we’re going to go another Direction

1:43:11

Brigham we have these guys that they told us we can make a bunch of money and

1:43:16

uh that they’ll come set up our clinic and we can kill it and you know yours

1:43:21

just sounds way more complicated and way more complex and does so I literally Joe

1:43:27

I swear to God on my life I went home that night and I laid in bed and I cried because I’m like I just wasted my whole

1:43:33

[ __ ] life savings trying to build this thing out I thought this was going to be my career I thought I was gonna leave and go build this new company in

1:43:40

da da da and I laid in bed that night and I was woke up the next morning I’m like either I can give up and just say

1:43:46

it it’s over and I lost everything or I can take all this stuff I’ve built out and go out and start trying to see if if

1:43:53

there’s somebody who wants to do it right and uh I went out and started meeting with doctors and educating them

1:43:59

on why these guys are criminals like do not do this if you do it the way these

1:44:04

guys are telling you if they’re telling you they’re going to adjust your shares that’s a kickback if they’re tell showing you that they’re gonna pay you

1:44:10

more if you send more that’s a kickback do you understand this that’s a felony you’ll go to prison and the doctors just

1:44:17

didn’t understand it it wasn’t that anybody wanted to commit crimes I just think they were naive they were like oh

1:44:23

well they have an attorney’s letter and they have this it doesn’t matter could you explain that to initial the initial

1:44:28

doctor who turned you down yeah yeah long story short he ended up coming back he ended up coming back to me so and

1:44:36

this is on I built it the right way and that was a blessing and a curse because

1:44:43

there’s so much [ __ ] Joe Jesus the market shifted so what happened when I started this I always say you can’t

1:44:49

judge somebody today for what they did yesterday because the world’s changed and so the market when I started this

1:44:56

The Narrative from Healthcare compliance attorneys and regulators and former doj prosecutors was

1:45:03

as long as you don’t touch governmental pay you can have a physician invested model

1:45:08

just make sure you run it right and you follow the rules and you do your best to hit the safe harbors very laws a fair

1:45:15

not like you better get it right or you’ll go to prison they should have been telling guys you

1:45:21

better get it right he’ll go to prison because what I saw in the marketplace will blow your [ __ ] mind I was

1:45:27

competing against guys there was there they got federally indicted a group of guys had what was called the slambulance

1:45:33

where they converted an ambulance to a strip with a stripper pole and their

1:45:39

biggest prescriber of the month would get to go out and party and they’d take them to titty bars and they would have

1:45:45

strippers dance on them in the ambulance and they called it the slambulance and

1:45:51

so there was that there was like I mean just egregious thing after egregious thing like and and you saw it’s like it

1:45:59

started here and then it just got way over here for these people and I’m still here trying to run this thing and I’m

1:46:05

like this is just not sustainable I’d have doctors email and he didn’t say well this guy told me he could pay me

1:46:11

way more money than you and I would just send it on to my FBI agent and go hey you go talk to this guy kick him out of

1:46:16

the group I’m not doing this like I I don’t care and it was so stressful it

1:46:21

was so stressful I hated every I hated life it was miserable I didn’t think I I

1:46:27

really feel like we did a really really good job of running something

1:46:33

Clean safe and efficiently but it just was not and then then I got behind the curtain and I started to see what was

1:46:39

happening like oh the insurance companies won’t reimburse on this stuff oh even though the patient needs it and

1:46:46

there’s medical necessity the insurance doesn’t want to cover it oh even if there’s medical necessity and the

1:46:52

patient needs it and the insurance does cover it they’re going to send a nasty letter to a doctor and start threatening them

1:46:57

this just is not sustainable the only way to do this is a cash model and so I

1:47:02

began to take the money I made and I bought a building and I built out of 503 a sterile Pharmacy and we got into

1:47:09

sterile compounding and I began to tell clinicians hey let’s offer patients these products for cash for pennies on

1:47:16

the dollar let’s just take them out of this insurance model let’s give them these solutions for cheap and cut out

1:47:23

the insurance agents and insurance companies and that space that I was in

1:47:28

as I built out my Pharmacy that space blew up and so what happened is people started getting federally indicted left

1:47:35

and right left and right and so for the Kickbacks for Kickbacks and it’s and it

1:47:41

depends like if it’s structured appropriately and implemented appropriately in theory

1:47:47

you are within the rules and regs of the law but the law is very gray

1:47:53

I mean it’s it’s there’s there’s a lot of gray and it and so I will say

1:47:58

even in that space they’re outliers there’s the guys doing the slambulance and all that stuff but the majority of

1:48:04

people wanted to do it right and what happened is the big insurance companies

1:48:09

go to the doj and they tell one half of the story doctors are getting kickbacks

1:48:15

doctors are making crazy money off of all these ancillaries and they’re

1:48:20

defrauding us the insurance companies on these tests or whatever it may be that’s

1:48:26

their side of the story and there is truth to that in some instances but in

1:48:32

most the clinicians I worked with they did the test they were going to do anyway we structured in a manner there’s

1:48:38

no incentive to send more because you’re getting the same if you send 500 or 10

1:48:43

you’re getting the same distribute does that make sense it’s based off your equity in the entity not the value or

1:48:49

volumes of your referrals that’s how you’re supposed to structure it that is not how other people were

1:48:56

structuring it and they would say well I talked to my attorney and they said I could do this this and that and so

1:49:02

anyways that that space began to implode but before that I was already like this is too stressful I’m gonna move to a

1:49:08

cash pay model and we built out a cash pay Pharmacy and began to educate clinicians on non-abusive non-addictive

1:49:14

pain creams we can get it to your patients for pennies on the dollar mailed to their doorstep after surgery

1:49:19

so you don’t have to write an opioid and what spurred that was the death of my brother like having seen what opioids

1:49:25

did I was like we can make a difference we can we can give people treatments that aren’t going to kill them and we

1:49:32

can do it for cheap but the only way to do it is to cut out the big Insurance cut out big Pharma and basically

1:49:40

manufacture these treatments compound these treatments and so that’s how that that part started

1:49:46

and then for the wellness side you want to keep going there’s a lot for

1:49:52

the wellness side I know it’s like dated no but it’s fascinating and it’s like so

1:49:57

I let me just like break it down from here you you create this compounding

1:50:02

pharmacy and you’re just compounding pain creams is that what you’re doing well the plan is initially the plan was

1:50:08

to compound anything that the insurance didn’t cover so let me bet sorry I’m all

1:50:13

over the board so much when I owned a pharmacy I would get every month a book like this

1:50:22

that told me all the prescription like an inch and a half thick book of paperwork that listed all the drugs they

1:50:29

were no longer going to cover okay sometimes I’ve already shipped out hundreds of thousands of dollars in

1:50:34

those drugs I’ve already shipped the drugs and now you the insurance company are going to

1:50:40

tell me you don’t cover those drugs but I already gave your patients the meds and so I would just eat that I

1:50:47

would have to lose that money because you can’t litigate against a big insurance company they’ll Crush you their billion dollar Corporation so

1:50:53

you’ll be tied up in litigation for the rest of your life and so seeing all that and seeing the corruption and I and I

1:50:59

want to give the big insurance companies credit too I don’t want to say all that they’re scumbags and there are people

1:51:05

doing really bad things and that is who the insurance is so frustrating because that’s where the insurance company can

1:51:12

hold up an example and say look at this and they their narrative is the Witch Hunt is the doctors and the Reps in

1:51:19

these corrupt companies that’s the insurance company’s narrative big pharma’s narrative is we’re here trying

1:51:24

to make these drugs and the insurance companies are beating us up everyone’s pointing fingers at each other but the

1:51:30

truth is they all have crucial roles to play all of them they’re all part of the problem and they’re all part of the

1:51:35

solution and it seems like it’s an untenable system it seems like this and it it’s also you can’t correct it you

1:51:42

just is no fixing it that’s what I was trying that’s that’s where I was going with all this that’s what the Genesis of ways to well so I built that Pharmacy

1:51:50

and then I’m myself 33 25 body fat on

1:51:55

the verge of obesity my dad’s diabetic my brother’s diabetic my sister’s

1:52:01

diabetic my mom’s diabetic I’m trying to do CrossFit every morning at 4am before

1:52:07

I go run around and do all my stuff I went and saw a nutritionist I was hopeless I enjoy I swear to God I

1:52:14

thought I just thought I am [ __ ] and this is because of eating habits never have you seen a nutritionist I was doing

1:52:20

everything and I thought I don’t I guess it’s just my genetics I don’t have the genetics my dad’s fat my mom’s fat

1:52:25

they’re all diabetic like this is it and it was such a big hole and I’m like I can’t I’m not going to be able to dig

1:52:31

out of this no matter how hard I work I’m moving backwards and finally my nutritionist said this is

1:52:37

how waste well was founded my nutritionist said dude you work your ass off something’s not

1:52:43

[ __ ] right dude I need you to go see a specialist I want you to go get a blood panel have you ever had a blood

1:52:48

panel and I said what everyone tells me yeah man my primary care pulls my blood every year I’ve had a blood panel

1:52:56

so naive not thinking that wait a second I should know this they don’t let your

1:53:01

doctor pull a full blood panel I’ve been in the space now I’ve seen behind the curtain I’ve seen The Wizard

1:53:07

of Oz I know what’s going on now these [ __ ] are denying coverage

1:53:12

and so I don’t really know what’s going on so I finally went in and got blood work I was on a hunting trip in Canada and I

1:53:18

get a call and it’s the urologist and he’s uh he’s a little Jewish guy from I think New York uh and he lives in

1:53:25

Houston he’s a thought leader he’s an amazing human but it’s bedtime manner this is what he tells me what are you doing I’m like I’m on a hunt what’s up

1:53:32

he’s like yeah like what do you mean he’s like you

1:53:38

have the testosterone of a little girl and like what do you do he’s like your testosterone’s 110. what do you what

1:53:44

have you been doing your testosterone is 110. I’m like I don’t know I have no idea like what why would it be he’s like

1:53:50

I don’t know he goes you know I don’t know if you’re fat because you have low testosterone or if you have low

1:53:56

testosterone because you’re fat but I can tell you you’re definitely fat with low testosterone and I’m like God damn

1:54:02

it so literally I swear all I did was when I got back into town

1:54:08

I went by his clinic and I met with him live and I said hey I I don’t want to do

1:54:14

treatment I’m scared I don’t I I’m worried that it could cause cancer like I don’t want to like become impotent or

1:54:21

have my balls shrink or all these things that you hear and he looked me dead in the eye and he goes

1:54:28

and I said and I don’t want to be on this the rest of my life because you know I don’t I heard once you go on it

1:54:33

your hormones are screwed he looked me in the eye and he goes you are [ __ ] your hormones are [ __ ] you’re [ __ ]

1:54:41

there’s no screwing it up there if you go on treatment we reduce your risk of diabetes we

1:54:48

reduce your risk of atherosclerosis we reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke we reduce your risk of Cancer all

1:54:54

of these major killers of man can be reduced by optimizing your hormone

1:54:59

levels we we are going to get you to Optimal levels but let me break it down

1:55:04

to what he was saying like he didn’t know whether or not your hormones were [ __ ] because you’re fat

1:55:10

correct did you you said you were working with a nutritionist what were

1:55:16

they doing to try to reduce your body fat we were eating uh six meals a day all lean muscle mass based I did a dexa

1:55:24

analyze my lean muscle mass did a pinch test as well uh monthly and we were

1:55:29

trending my lean muscle mass versus my body fat and so literally when I started

1:55:34

treatment I went from 25 body fat did not change my diet did not change my

1:55:40

workout plan did not change anything I went to seven percent body fat within six months

1:55:45

just fixing hormones and there was no way to do that organically I think

1:55:51

that’s a misnomer too and I there’s people like uh Peter attia I know you’ve had on I really respect him he’s he’s

1:55:57

brilliant and I agree with a lot of what he says but a lot of the viewpoints are this

1:56:02

I’m not gonna write you a hormone or anything to boost your hormone levels until you change your diet and lifestyle

1:56:09

and to me that’s I I was already practicing that so this isn’t about me

1:56:15

but I look at that and think you know that’s pretty short-sighted because not

1:56:20

treating and not giving this person an optimal chance at getting these levels

1:56:26

improved is a hindrance they’re going to be more tired they’re going to be more lethargic they’re going to have lower

1:56:31

energy level whether the chicken or the egg came first who cares we’re here now

1:56:37

to naturally boost your hormone levels to an optimal place there are and that’s

1:56:44

that’s it but even then so my testosterone is 110. show me a study my

1:56:49

challenge would be to any clinician show me a study that’s gonna boost my testosterone 500

1:56:57

fold or whatever it’s going to take to get me up into the normal ranges you know a five times fold basically to get

1:57:04

me it doesn’t when you diet exercise sleep nutrition is huge and it’s important it’s a Cornerstone and we talk

1:57:10

about that it weighs too well but as we age and in this world we don’t

1:57:16

know if it’s the Plastics we don’t know if it’s the lifestyle the fast food what we ate growing up they really don’t know

1:57:23

I asked him the same question I said what could have caused this and he said

1:57:29

it’s rampant he said Brigham I with 30 million men are diagnosed with low t a

1:57:34

year and he starts breaking all of that down for me and explaining it so I don’t know what caused mine I really don’t

1:57:40

head trauma can cause it concussions can cause it um did you have any of that

1:57:46

I mean I played basketball and I hit my head on the I mean yeah I’ve had like two concussions but I might could those

1:57:51

two concussions have caused this I don’t know I I don’t know what caused it um

1:57:57

and I don’t know if it if I was getting fat because my hormones were lower my hormones were low because I was fat like

1:58:04

I don’t know I really don’t to this day um but what I what I believe in is like

1:58:11

what he explained to me and this is what I would explain to the Layman one

1:58:16

you are at an increased risk of all of the Four Horsemen of death for mankind if you do not optimize and correct your

1:58:23

hormones and if you want to try and do that through diet and lifestyle it’s got to be a part of what you do period even

1:58:30

if you go on hormone boosters like an HCG or something to boost your natural testosterone level you still need to

1:58:37

obviously Implement diet exercise nutrition sleep all those are crucial there is no Silver Bullet there’s no

1:58:46

one-size-fits all everyone’s different and it’s going to take all of these things being dialed in to get

1:58:52

Improvement and so going through that process though it took me three months to get in with

1:58:58

that urologist I got there that day I waited four hours Joe in a packed Clinic

1:59:04

they pull my blood for the first time in my life at 30 something years old I got a full blood panel never had it

1:59:12

I get a bill in the mail even though his insurance for 480 dollars

1:59:18

for my blood work because Insurance denied some of the panels and said we’re not paying those

1:59:23

we don’t think you needed them so I had to come out of pocket for that in seeing what all they did with that

1:59:31

and then seeing my experience and how life-changing it was I went from 25 to and I began became obsessed with like

1:59:37

biohacking how do we do this better how what are the loopholes what are the challenges like what are the pitfalls of

1:59:44

this current system and the big thing is it’s under diagnosed people aren’t looking at the full

1:59:50

comprehensive picture right they’re immediately you come in with diabetes they’re writing you a diabetes Med well

1:59:55

have you ever run a full panel do you even know all the root causes of what’s

2:00:00

going on with this patient like let’s do a deep dive let’s really look at this patient you can’t do that in the

2:00:07

insurance model you can’t the insurance won’t cover it so if the insurance isn’t going to cover

2:00:12

it then the patient has to pay out of pocket and now the patient’s mad because they thought their insurance would cover it and the doctors don’t want to have

2:00:19

that conversation so they just don’t do the test wow and then the insurance wins

2:00:24

because you don’t get treatment wow and so that it’s a win-win for the insurance companies because they’re

2:00:30

they’re spending less and they’re still charging you all your you know uh

2:00:35

expenses on it so did you try HCG I did I did HCG first

2:00:40

um and I got great results and then it was as you begin biohacking and wanting to get more optimal so there’s a

2:00:47

difference between and that’s another thing all clear out there’s it I also found that other than urologists most of

2:00:54

these practices did not know what they were doing so urologists are obviously intimately

2:01:00

aware of these hormones and and usually know you know have a good blueprint for

2:01:06

Success Low T centers that are popping up on every corner they’re terrifying they’re just

2:01:12

literally giving every guy the exact same thing it’s all about cattle call get them in and out of here get your

2:01:17

money but they’re not monitoring again they’re they’re looking at testosterone testosterone is one hormone in a

2:01:25

symphony of hormones and in order to play Beautiful music every hormone has to be optimized and so we can’t focus

2:01:32

just on testosterone we have to look at somebody holistically and we treat women too at ways to well and there’s a big

2:01:39

gap for women and so um the challenges I saw and the reason I

2:01:45

started waste well was if you talk about primary care they’re seeing a patient every seven minutes they don’t have the

2:01:50

time they can’t get the blood work done and even if they do they don’t know how to treat it and even if they did want to

2:01:56

learn to treat it they were still in their minds to this day a lot of primary carers will

2:02:03

tell their patient I wouldn’t get on testosterone or any of those hormones they cause cancer

2:02:09

that comes from a study done testosterone has been on Market since

2:02:15

1931 or 32. the study done by Dr Huggins

2:02:20

in 1942 he came out and said when I treat men with testosterone this uh Alpha

2:02:28

phosphatase level goes up when I chemically castrate a man the level drops

2:02:34

so I think that the synopsis of the study was if you give a man testosterone

2:02:39

you will exasperate prostate cancer or potentially cause prostate cancer

2:02:45

yeah I don’t understand well and this is how I’ll explain and then but the and then his answer was but if you if you’re

2:02:51

if you’re a man with prostate cancer and I suppress your testosterone to castrate levels which is below 50 nanograms per

2:02:58

deciliter is basically no testosterone in your body if I suppress it I can slow

2:03:03

the progression of prostate cancer all right but is there a correlation between this is the 1940s that study came out

2:03:11

this was the thought leader in urology The Godfather of Urology back in the 1940s he won a Nobel Peace Prize for

2:03:17

some other work he did he set the narrative for 50 F in years nobody ever looked at

2:03:26

the study nobody ever questioned the study it became Dogma medical schools

2:03:33

taught practitioners if you write Pro if you write testosterone to a patient and

2:03:39

they have prostate cancer it is the equivalent to dumping gasoline on a fire and if they don’t you increase their

2:03:46

risk profile of propensity to potentially develop prostate cancer

2:03:52

in uh and this is important to get out I know it’s not exciting but it’s like in

2:03:57

1997 the new thought leader Dr Morgan Tyler Boston Urology began treating men

2:04:03

in the 80s with testosterone because there was no Viagra and he had a lot of guys coming in with erectile dysfunction

2:04:10

and impotence and low sex drive and then he thought you know I’m gonna have to really monitor them for prostate

2:04:16

cancer because I’m worried I’m going to see an increase what he started seeing was no increase

2:04:22

it was 13 of his patient population who were not on testosterone developed prostate cancer do you know what

2:04:28

percentage developed it who were 13 the exact same number and he said man that’s

2:04:34

weird been doing this for like 10 years I’m going to do some research he went back and looked at the literature from

2:04:41

the Dr Huggins study because it was the only study in 50 years that showed any

2:04:47

correlation what he found was Dr huggin’s study had a patient population of three people

2:04:55

what three people yes this is true story is on the website too I attached the

2:05:00

link so you can review the study this is white paper peer-reviewed peer-reviewed literature this isn’t me making [ __ ] up

2:05:05

it’s insane three people one guy dropped out of the study on day three one guy

2:05:10

was chemically castrated meaning he doesn’t have testosterone so yes of course when you take someone from

2:05:16

chemically castrated chemically castrated I don’t know they didn’t they didn’t explain why

2:05:21

um I think because he had a pre-existing prostate cancer or something like that so but they’re checking your PSA to or

2:05:27

at the time it was a different marker it wasn’t PSA it was Alpha phosphatase or some [ __ ] like that

2:05:32

um so the third guy and the only guy that the data was based off of

2:05:38

was uh normal or sorry low testosterone but

2:05:44

then treated and his Alpha phosphatase level I’m not sure if I’m even saying that right it’s PSA now is what they

2:05:50

measure but it was what they thought PSA was back then um was erratic meaning indecipherable it

2:05:57

went up it went down it went up it went down and so at that point Dr Morgan Tyler said all right I got to do the

2:06:02

research and he went back 50 years looked at all the different studies there was never once other than this Dr

2:06:08

Huggins study which was one patient population of one any evidence of an increase in cancer so

2:06:15

for decades men were deprived of hormone optimization and so when I was outside

2:06:21

waiting for you the girl asked me why why his testosterone taken off so much do you think it’s that doctors are over

2:06:28

prescribing or do you think that it’s that now they’re diagnosing it and I

2:06:33

said I think it’s all the above I think one of the problems was there was such a stigma around it for so long and Med

2:06:40

schools taught these primary care providers that this was going to cause prostate cancer exasperated so they

2:06:45

didn’t touch it with a 10-foot Pole um Dr Morgan Tyler released a all of his

2:06:50

findings in in uh New England medal Journal of Medicine in 1997 I attached

2:06:57

that on the website debunks all this there is zero correlation zero

2:07:02

correlation between optimizing testosterone levels and cancer

2:07:07

in fact what they find is once you get above low

2:07:12

you actually have some cancer insulation some protection it reduces certain types

2:07:19

of cancers and they’re like good and I even heard I’m bringing this up because I listen I’m a huge fan of David

2:07:24

Sinclair too and I listened to one of his podcasts he talks about the risk reward of hormones and that testosterone

2:07:31

has been proven to cause cancer and I’m like what where are you getting this literature are you talking about the Dr

2:07:37

Huggins study from 1940s that’s been debunked for over 20 years because the

2:07:43

thought leaders now today the general consensus is you treat within uh optimal

2:07:50

physiological levels and it’s almost all reward there are there is of every every

2:07:56

single treatment on the market has some sort of risk profile but when we look at testosterone it’s been on the market

2:08:01

since the 1930s Ander gel launched in 2021 that was the first big bang for

2:08:08

testosterone in 2021 Pfizer launched AndroGel millions of prescriptions went out millions of men got on testosterone

2:08:15

therapy and they did the analytics and do you know what they saw 13 of men developed prostate cancer it there was

2:08:23

no increase in the level of prostate cancer so is prostate cancer primarily genetic it’s an age-related disease

2:08:30

state so what they what they’re saying now is as as you age all cancers are essentially typically correlated to age

2:08:36

I know there’s like some childhood cancers but a lot of cancers become more statistically prevalent as you age and

2:08:43

so is it some sort of cellular deterioration um I don’t know but it the point of that

2:08:50

whole narrative was testosterone is safe it is one of the most studied

2:08:56

medications or treatments on the market it’s been around for a long long time

2:09:02

and when utilized appropriately it is a very valuable tool in longevity and so

2:09:09

if we begin to look at the killers of man and this is how I started waste well I looked at your the primary care

2:09:16

practices and they wouldn’t write these things because they were scared of cancer then I look at the urologist and

2:09:22

I’m like well it takes three months to get in you have to have a referral from a primary insurance doesn’t even cover the treatment I was having to come out

2:09:28

of pocket 80 something percent of insurances refused to cover hormone optimization or

2:09:34

hormone replacement therapy and so you even if you do try to stay in

2:09:40

the insurance model the chance that they uncover that you have a hormonal imbalance are slim to none unless you’re

2:09:46

seeing a urologist or an OB gen um and then if they do uncover it the

2:09:52

chances the insurance cover the treatment are slim to none and so I had to come up with a solution to make it

2:10:00

more cost effective and that’s when we built out our Pharmacy and we started doing an array of different testosterones and all of the

2:10:07

regenerative stuff that’s not covered peptides bpc157 all of these various uh really

2:10:14

interesting molecules that are better suited for proactive use than reactive

2:10:20

use and what I mean is like let’s get ahead of the disease States let’s stop you from becoming obese let’s stop you

2:10:26

from becoming diabetic let’s like prevent it rather than talk to people

2:10:31

that have said that there’s no studies that show that peptides are effective I’ve attached those to you there’s a ton

2:10:37

peptides so okay peptides where is that coming do you know where because I’ve talked to the intelligent people well my

2:10:43

rebuttal that would be like do they realize insulin is a peptide are they saying insulin is unaffective well I

2:10:48

think they’re just primarily talking about the current use of bbc157 and alike

2:10:54

um there is bpc157 is not an FDA approved peptide

2:11:00

meaning it has not gone through clinical trials like what we’re talking about with all these other drugs but what’s

2:11:06

different is it’s not a drug it is an amino acid

2:11:11

bpc157 all peptides all they are is short chain amino acids they are

2:11:17

literally like a key that connects to the lock and the key is the peptide and

2:11:24

the lock is your cells and so what happens is these peptides will go and bind to protein receptor sites on cells

2:11:31

and do whatever their signaling cell is the same thing I talked about with mesenchymal signaling cells that’s the

2:11:37

same thing that peptides are they’re mainly signaling peptides they’re these amino acid chains that when arranged

2:11:45

differently have different results in the body so they’re naturally occurring in our food and our diet and our meat

2:11:51

and as we begin to age our bioavailability of these various amino

2:11:56

acids acids deteriorates and it’s the same thing with our cells and that’s where these mscs and these peptides and

2:12:02

all these things are kind of from what I’ve seen have a synergistic effect and that’s what’s really hard too we’ve had

2:12:08

such good results at ways to well treating injuries and ailments but a lot

2:12:14

of times we’re using a multitude of treatment modalities combined right it’s most the guys who are doing peptides are

2:12:20

who are doing any placental derived tissues are also doing peptides so there are studies I attached them on

2:12:28

the website there’s one in mice where they literally severed mice’s spines and

2:12:33

uh then injected them with bpc and the spot the mice that got the injection

2:12:38

within I think like four to six weeks recovered use of their legs but the mice that didn’t did not

2:12:44

um there’s all sorts of interesting data but the original peptides that took off happened uh during the

2:12:51

Cold war with Russia so Russia had guys dying because their nuclear reactors were leaking and on submarines and they

2:12:58

brought in this Nobel prize-winning scientist and said what can we do and he began to uh analyze like how he could

2:13:07

use amino acids to help uh cellular health and tissue soft tissue health and

2:13:12

all these different things and each peptide targets a different type of tissue and so long story short it worked

2:13:20

they started using it on all their Sailors on all their uh people that were enlisted and then they even used it in

2:13:27

Chernobyl after Chernobyl went off they used this exact same peptide and their studies that show that peptide the

2:13:33

patients who were administered the peptide had lower cancer rates than the patients who didn’t get administered the

2:13:38

peptide I think when people say there’s no science what they’re saying is there’s no double blind studies that

2:13:44

have gone through the FDA stage 3 clinical trials and the fda’s main concern is is this safe and does it work

2:13:52

and that and the other issue with that is the FDA all of these things start to

2:13:58

fall under what’s called biologics and that’s why I was talking about the crucial side of where does the money come from right the drug companies the

2:14:05

med device companies biologics is less than I think eight percent of the fda’s allocated funds they’re already short

2:14:11

staffed so biologics is a much slower moving space and that’s why in certain

2:14:17

instances for things like amnion they gave a q code they said hey we know this is going to take a while like we don’t

2:14:23

have the resources they end up giving a q code so there’s a way to get a reimbursement all those loopholes have

2:14:29

been shut down now and so insurance won’t cover any of these things so if you ask a primary care they’re not going

2:14:36

to know what this is uh at the Gordon Ryan matches I went up and a guy came up

2:14:41

started talking to me he thought it was your security detail he goes hey man are you Joe’s security job I’m like no no I

2:14:48

just know him and uh he said well what do you do when I told him I wasn’t security like I have a wellness company

2:14:54

we we we’re trying to bring uh we’re trying to bring personalized medicine to the masses uh we’re trying to be

2:15:01

predictive uh and proactive rather than reactive and use the tools that are available to diagnose disease States

2:15:07

before they ever occur he’s like wow that’s crazy so do you do peptides and I was like Yeah we actually do he told me

2:15:14

the story he had his ACL done he asked his doctor about bpc said I’ve never heard of it it’s quackery I don’t know

2:15:20

about it he ended up going to a longevity uh anti-aging Clinic because four months after his surgery his knee

2:15:27

was still killing him uh he still didn’t have full range of motion he was struggling with a lot of stuff he went

2:15:34

and got bpc and treated and he was like literally in four weeks everything was

2:15:39

good like it’s this stuff’s crazy um and we’ve seen that with with Tim Tim talk Tim Kennedy talked about it with

2:15:46

his knee we used peptides and we used what people were calling themselves placental derived tissues perinatal

2:15:53

tissues to treat Tim there’s a synergistic effect peptides work these products work it’s obviously

2:16:00

going to vary by patient and you got to be real I’ve got to tread real lightly of not making medical claims because

2:16:06

again until something’s been through a double-blind placebo-controlled trial with the FDA and gone through rigorous

2:16:14

safety testing they’re wary about people going out and making claims and and that makes sense too is there any potential

2:16:21

for that happening for what double blind placebo-controlled yeah there’s there’s a lot of stuff going on uh in stage

2:16:27

three trials now I think your buddy uh Neil Reardon is in the middle I think he’s in stage three he already submitted

2:16:33

safety data on the same tissues we’ve been using for years by the way yeah like it’s not this is it’s by

2:16:41

Tony said that the physician told him um it’s Bro Science and the technology

2:16:47

is not there yet and I said Tony it’s not Bro Science there’s white paper study after white paper study in animals

2:16:54

and in humans now especially when we’re referring to Orthopedic injuries like knees hips shoulders elbows there are

2:17:02

tons of studies that have been done that are published in journals regarding amniotic tissue placental derived tissue

2:17:09

Wharton’s jelly all of these cellular and acellular products and there’s a wide array of them some of them work

2:17:15

some of them don’t but the studies are promising and uh one of the articles

2:17:20

that is on the website it’s uh the white paper study and hips the whole synopsis was there is tremendous promise in these

2:17:28

treatments uh we just need to tread lightly about over promising or uh essentially

2:17:38

telling people that it’s going to cure everything you know and that’s what happened people did get out there and they started over promoting and that’s

2:17:45

where the FDA came in and started hammering clinics clinics were out there telling people it’ll cure your Ms you

2:17:52

know you can inject it in an eye and you’ll be able to see again like you can’t make claims without studies you

2:17:58

know there’s got to be studies and data anything I’ve discussed with you and that you’ve seen is anecdotal because we haven’t put them through a study but I

2:18:05

can tell you at the ground level the feedback’s phenomenal the results are phenomenal I mean we’ve helped so many

2:18:11

people who are told they needed spine surgery I mean you again I’ve asked all these people Gabe Tuttle was told he

2:18:17

needed spine surgery Kyle Kinsel told he needed spine surgery Tony Hinchcliffe totally needed spine surgery those are

2:18:24

just three he was Tony was literally making calls to schedule a surgery his

2:18:30

neck was in so much pain that he had to sit a certain way while he was doing kill Tony or he’d be in agony so you’d

2:18:38

have to like put his foot under his butt and like lean like this because if he

2:18:43

sat normally it would just ache he was in constant pain and you guys shot him

2:18:49

up with what did you use um and we with Tony it at the time it was Wharton’s jelly and

2:18:56

bpc157 and I I want to get into and what is Wharton’s Joey Wharton’s jelly is uh

2:19:02

essentially the tissue taken from the placentas the jelly that’s found in the placenta that the baby sits in and

2:19:07

Wharton’s jelly is Rich with cellular nutrients mscs

2:19:13

methinkable signaling cells if it’s cryogenically prefer preserved and it’s a cellular product uh it’s going to have

2:19:20

cytokines exosomes scaffolding and extracellular vesicles all that means is

2:19:26

it’s a bunch of goodies that feed cells heal help cells like essentially for

2:19:32

lack of a better term optimize and refuel mitochondria but more than anything what it’s doing is triggering

2:19:37

your body to heal itself that’s the goal can we trigger your body to heal itself why does a pregnant woman

2:19:44

have such amazing skin you always hear about the pregnancy glow your skin looks

2:19:49

great your hair looks great your nails are great when a woman’s pregnant they have the lowest cancer risk they’ll ever

2:19:54

have in their life there’s a reason for that this is millions of years when I where I was

2:20:00

going with that when Tony’s doctor told him it’s Bro Science and the technology is not there yet my rebuttal was Tony

2:20:07

he’s a [ __ ] it’s not technology it’s biology the biology has been two million

2:20:12

years in the making like how long have modern day Homo sapiens been around 200 000 years though at least 200 000 years

2:20:18

in the making these are all naturally occurring elements in nature in our body that’s why there’s no Adverse Events all

2:20:26

the Adverse Events you’re hearing are either improper utilization right injecting something into

2:20:32

somebody’s eyeball was one of the things that came up and it was like okay well yeah of course that guy’s a quack the

2:20:38

other one is uh improper sterilization or sterile storage or utilization and

2:20:43

what I mean by that is one of the big bad players in the space early was a company called levion and they went out

2:20:49

they’re still in the marketplace these yahoos went out and told people to store their product in liquid nitrogen but the

2:20:55

casein they put it in wasn’t leak proof so liquid nitrogen was leaking in to

2:21:01

these cellular products and getting injected into people’s spines crippling people I mean it’s crazy and so but it

2:21:08

almost all the Adverse Events are related to things like that it’s not these again this these cells have been

2:21:14

around thousands and thousands of years this is not anything new they’ve used amnion and Morton’s jelly on wound

2:21:20

victims and gunshots and all these things for lit or like severe wounds and diabetics for literally 20 years it’s

2:21:28

not it’s been around it’s just the science is finally catching up and the research is catching up and all the info

2:21:34

I get the other thing you’ll learn is if you want answers on stuff that’s Cutting Edge you don’t go to MDS

2:21:40

and a medic an MD you go to the guy who invents the hammer not the guy who

2:21:46

wields it like the guy who wields it knows how to use the hammer once it’s there and the product’s ready but I want

2:21:51

to meet the guy who built the hammer discovered the hammer and engineered the hammer that’s a PhD that’s the guy

2:21:57

sitting at the bench those are the guys doing all this like Sinclair doing the studies in mice on The Cutting Edge in

2:22:05

the know in the on the very first to do clinical trials so they’re going to be

2:22:10

much more informed and knowledgeable than an MD because the MD’s again trying

2:22:16

to make it through the day and do their surgeries and do their procedures and it’s a lot and they don’t have the time

2:22:21

to do the research they do continual training but they get to choose what that training is focused on and is

2:22:27

typically focused on reiterating skill sets that they’re already working on well I can tell you anecdotally my what

2:22:35

what it what it’s benefited me from and you know I’ve talked and length about this on the podcast before that

2:22:41

I went to Dr Roddy McGee in Las Vegas and he injected stem cells in my rotator cuff I had a full length rotator cuff

2:22:48

tear then I went back to him six months later we did an MRI and The Tear was gone and he said this is the most

2:22:54

extraordinary thing I’ve ever seen he said you have to understand this is like when they really were first starting

2:22:59

doing this kind of stuff and he said I this is a surgery this is surgery you

2:23:06

needed surgery he goes your your shoulder was [ __ ] my shoulder is full range of motion full strength I have

2:23:13

zero problem with the shoulder I mean when I mean zero I mean nothing I mean I do cleans and presses with 70 pound

2:23:19

kettlebells I do windmills with 70 pound kettlebells which is a shoulder stabilization thing because you’re

2:23:25

holding this kettlebell overhead and you’re dropping all the way down to to the floor and touching the floor and

2:23:31

it’s completely solid it doesn’t bother me at all I kickbox with it I lift

2:23:36

weights with it I draw a bow back with it zero problems I believe in it I’m a Believer I believe in it our patients

2:23:43

believe in it uh I believe in peptides I have seen extraordinary things Tim said

2:23:48

the same thing it’s science when Tim’s came in he was a skeptic when Tim Kennedy came in he’s like is this real

2:23:53

science or is this [ __ ] you know and then we treated him and I and I’m I’m honest with people I said Tim you have a

2:24:01

full tier you’ve got to go get that addressed this is going to help with inflammation in the injury but he also had a partial tear and when he went in

2:24:08

for the surgery four weeks out his partial tear had fully healed and the doctor’s like what are you doing and

2:24:13

he’s like well I’m doing these peptides and I did some sort of stem cell treatment is what he called it but placental derived tissue Wharton’s jelly

2:24:20

treatment and it worked I mean it works like I I don’t know what to say I can’t tell I’m not saying that it’s going to

2:24:26

work for everybody and that everyone should rush out and do it talk to a clinician do your research educate

2:24:32

yourself understand that a lot of times clinicians are not offering you the best

2:24:37

product on the market it they’re offering you the best product that insurance will cover and that’s a

2:24:44

difficult conversation for clinicians to have in fact they don’t have it if you’ve got to pay cash for something

2:24:49

your clinician is not going to have that talk with you nine out of 10 times again they got to get you in and out of there

2:24:56

they’re not going to sit there and educate you on why this regenerative

2:25:01

treatment may be a solution and how has your understanding of these things

2:25:07

evolved and how is your implementation of these things evolved as you started ways to well

2:25:13

um the biggest change honestly is more on the is is less on the um placental derived tissue side and

2:25:20

more on the hormone optimization side in the preventative side and like seeing

2:25:25

the results on people’s blood works and seeing like their blood sugar level improve their diabetes improve my

2:25:31

brother lost a hundred pounds since coming on with ways to well I mean we’ve treated over 7 000 patient lives in the

2:25:39

state of Texas our pharmacies treated over 167 000 people I mean we’ve been doing what

2:25:45

Mark Cuban’s doing for a decade for eight years seven years whatever it is almost a decade seven years uh offering

2:25:52

generic prescriptions for pennies on the dollar mailed to a patient’s doorstep you can go to wastewell RX look up a

2:25:58

prescription we’ll mail it to your doorstep if you’re in that sick care model and you want to hold somebody honest and see what you should be paying

2:26:05

for a drug and know what a cash pay price is oftentimes we’re cheaper than the insurance co-payer deductible so

2:26:12

there’s that space the other is the in the regenerative space the biggest is peptides keep evolving and coming out

2:26:19

um I do think a lot of the stem cell products what people are calling cellular products will begin to get more

2:26:25

regularly accepted um I’ve Just Seen more and more Buzz about it more and more people talking about it more and more very influential

2:26:33

wealthy people uh investing in it and so I feel like

2:26:38

For Better or Worse it’s here the fear becomes you know the bad players the

2:26:44

people doing bad things the people being snake oil salesmen and charging grandmas and promising the world and you know

2:26:52

taking money from these people that gives everybody a bad rap and that creates an environment that

2:26:59

increases the potential of more regulation not less regulation and more strictness um so it in when when people are one of

2:27:09

the big Evolutions was trying to get people over the fact that when they think stem cells are illegal

2:27:15

or you can’t have them that’s like the biggest and I I haven’t seen that change yet like the average American is of the

2:27:20

impression that they’ve got to go to Panama or fly to Germany and spend twenty five thousand dollars in order to

2:27:27

get a treatment and I think the way this is headed in another five years this will be Pennies on the dollar people

2:27:34

will be able to pay cash and get a knee injection for an extremely cost effective price way more cost effective

2:27:41

than a surgery so what would be the benefit of going to these places like going to Colombia

2:27:47

um if money is No Object again like I don’t

2:27:53

I think clinically there’s not a downside I I can’t say there is a downside but my rebuttal again would be

2:27:58

you know uh the efficacious dose is the minimal dose is required to elicit the desired response we’ve had such

2:28:05

phenomenal results just using these uh you know 361 and 351 exempt products

2:28:13

um that we can use here in the United States the potential derived tissues so when people say these are illegal or

2:28:18

this is that any of these cellular products have to fall under one of two designations a 361

2:28:25

meaning a minimally manipulated tissue meaning I cannot alter edit clone or

2:28:31

expand the tissue in a Petri dish like they can in Panama or Germany that’s really the only difference

2:28:37

they’re taking the exact same tissue and they’re expanding it so they’re just giving you a larger dose larger dose of

2:28:43

it and my thing would be I’m not saying that’s bad I don’t I think time will tell but we’re getting phenomenal results

2:28:49

with what’s readily available here in the U.S now is there any concern that

2:28:54

new regulations and new restrictions could apply to what you do

2:29:02

um on everything yeah I think there definitely is there’s always that risk uh I do think the FDA is doing their

2:29:09

best to sort through a very complicated thing because you got to think the FDA was never

2:29:15

in the biologics world they were approving drugs and so one of the challenges with bringing a stem cell I

2:29:22

keep doing air quotes uh or potential derived tissue to the mass market via an

2:29:28

FDA trial is one of the things the FDA will look at and want is consistency and

2:29:34

that’s understandable but this is human tissue right this is not a pill that I’m

2:29:40

manufacturing where I get the dosage right yeah so one part one particle of

2:29:46

tissue may have exponentially more live cells than another there’s there’s just no way so they most of the tissue Banks

2:29:52

now do it by weight by the weight of the tissue and it’s an estimation of the

2:29:58

live cells whereas Neil and this is another advantage of what they’re doing Panama is they run it through and they count them and they’re oh there’s this

2:30:04

many uh again if we were getting bad results or things weren’t working I would be like oh man okay I guess we’re

2:30:10

going to have to open a clinic in Panama right we get phenomenal results with the products that are readily available here

2:30:16

in the US and so is there any pushback against this like

2:30:22

is there are there any fda’s main pushbacks are twofold one it’s it’s the Private Industry the big

2:30:29

insurance companies and the governmental payers because they were upset about these Q codes and people misrepresenting

2:30:35

the product and billing them in a manner that is inappropriate and so that created backlash the other is snakehold

2:30:42

salesman it’s people literally making promises I mean you can go to websites where people like we’ll heal your spine

2:30:49

we’ll heal your like they they’re they’re making claims that are unsubstantiated and shouldn’t be made

2:30:55

and and I understand that and so the FDA uh has means of action to reach out and

2:31:00

grab those people like the Federal Trade Commission um they did go after a clinic in

2:31:06

California and they lost um this just happened like a month ago three weeks ago

2:31:12

um they went after a clinic and this is a different situation this was not placental derived tissue what he was

2:31:17

doing was taking adipose tissue fat tissue from a stomach isolating it and

2:31:23

or uh curating the culturing those cells in a in a dish and then administering them

2:31:28

as stem cells and so I understand where the FDA is getting weird about that because now you have an

2:31:34

MD playing PhD in a practice in some small little lab you know what

2:31:40

I’m saying it’s a little different than an ISO certified giant lab with a bunch of phds running around lab coats and

2:31:47

sterile clothes and they’ve got all the protocols and procedures to make sure these products are safe there’s a little

2:31:52

bit more consistency and predictability even though it’s tissue at least we know the tissue is you know contaminant free

2:31:58

disease free healthy safe to use in a clinical setting the fda’s concern was

2:32:05

if you’re pulling this tissue out and then extrapolating out these cells and then pushing these cells back in the body we don’t think you should be doing

2:32:11

that the judge ruled in favor of the providers the judge in this instance so

2:32:17

the FDA will either have to appeal it or precedent is set that Physicians are

2:32:23

going to have the autonomy to be able to potentially use those treatments and practices well this is wild stuff man

2:32:29

and this is about as thorough a breakdown as I’ve ever heard of all

2:32:34

these things from the insurance companies to the clinicians to everything and I

2:32:41

appreciate everything you’ve done for me and everything you’ve done for my friends and I think what you guys do is

2:32:46

[ __ ] amazing and yeah I appreciate it it’s helped me tremendously and it just

2:32:52

I’m a big believer so thank you uh waystowell.com ways too well done ways

2:32:58

to the number two main the main focus of our practice is regenerative and preventative care what we’re trying to

2:33:04

do is use predictive tools to get ahead of disease States and keep people healthy don’t wait to get sick if you’re

2:33:11

overweight if you’re struggling with your weight if you’re trying to get in shape we can help we can help give you

2:33:18

the tools you need we can help give you the resources you need and we have measurables that will allow us to help

2:33:24

tell you if you’re headed towards a trajectory of getting to live to be a centenarian if your goal is to live to

2:33:31

be a happy healthy 100 year old and able to lift your grandkids and do all these things there are ways to assess if

2:33:37

you’re there are you headed on the right trajectory and if you’re not there are interventions that are out there but

2:33:43

it’s going to take cash pay model insurance is never going to cover this and uh yeah that’s it and ways to well

2:33:50

slash JRE for all the references and all the studies that you cited yep break them you’re the [ __ ] man all right

2:33:56

thanks Joe appreciate it all right [Applause]

Episode 1873 – Brigham Buhler – The Joe Rogan Experience Video

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